Saxo Mk2 VTR O/S Driveshaft replacement advice please

5th January 2012, 20:12

Hi all

The offside C.V. joint on my Saxo Mk2 VTR is starting to make a right racket! So i'm going to change it. I have searched the forums for advice etc and have the following:

Drain gearbox oil
Take the lowest plug out of the gearbox and let it drain
Apparently this is an 8mm square headed bolt? - Can someone advise if a square socket is really necessary and can it be done with a spanner?
Once drained re-fit this plug
Remove wheel.
Remove 32mm nut on the end of the drive shaft in the middle of the disc.
Remove nut from lower wishbone
Slide the drive shaft out of the wheel hub by moving the suspension strut.
Slide the drive shaft out of the gearbox
Repeat the above in reverse with new drive shaft.
Remove the upper plug out of the gearbox and fill with fresh gearbox oil until oil comes out of the hole I am filling it from.

Questions
I take it the drive shaft will not simply slide out and it will need crowbars and hammers to shift?
Please can someone let me know the torque settings for the 32mm drive shaft hub nut and the lower wishbone nut?
Can someone please confirm the last point in the list?
Anything else I need to be aware of?

Many thanks guys,
Andy.

5th January 2012, 20:19

imo you don't need to remove the gearbox oil. just have a bucket underneeth to catch the oil that will come out.

to get the wishbone out get a long steel bar, put it on the wishbone + push against the floor of the car and get someone to hit it with a heavy hammer taking care not to hit you wing

.

personally i just gun up the pinch bolt + hub nut checking the tightness with a long spanner. it is recomended you change the nut of the pinch bolt as it is a nylock nut.

once the driveshaft is free pull the hub aside and slide the shaft out it may need a little help, but mine didn't it just came straight out the gearbox

but yes you need an 8mm square socket to undo the drain/re-fill plug.

5th January 2012, 20:59

Quote:

imo you don't need to remove the gearbox oil. just have a bucket underneeth to catch the oil that will come out.

If I don't drain it, how much oil can I expect to come out?

I havn't got a spare locknut but I do have thread lock I can use.

On the actual gear box is the drain and the re-fill plug in easy to get at places?

5th January 2012, 21:12

you mightaswell drain it imo its probably never been changed before. new oil will do it good

there is a breather at the top you can fill it with (black plastic cap) and a drain on the bottom similar to the drain on your engine sump

6th January 2012, 19:55

/\ don't do this mate.

fill it up properly as you have to move further from the drain plug to get to the breather than the actual filler plug. that will be about 4" up from the drain plug and will look just like it on the end of the gearbox. iirc you'll need to remove the front section of the inner wing lining (plastic bit), to get the filler bottle in.
but if you want to change it iirc you'll need around 3 litres of 75w/90 to be on the safe side. also while your there you mite aswell flick out the old driveshaft oil seal on the gearbox and replace that. as it will start to leak once disturbed.

6th January 2012, 21:49

Yeah guys, started this tonight and I've so far had a right mare with it.

Here is a run down of what i've done so far:

Drained gearbox oil and re-fitted the drain plug and washer.
Removed battery and tray to locate the breather hole. I think I will have to use this method as I dont have a filler funnel to be able to use the horizontal second plug 4" away from the drain plug.
Next I struggled like fuck to loosen up the lower wishbone nut and bolt but finally managed to get them off. Looks very rusty...
Then I seperated the lower wishbone from the hub using various implements such as a long strudy driver and a hammer. I may have punctured the rubber though....
Next I went to remove the 32mm nut holding the driveshaft to the hub. I used a 32mm socket, put the car in first gear and jammed a large strudy driver into the gaps on the brake disc and into the floor for extra help.
The socket I was using started to slip round the nut which confused me. I think this is because I was using one of the following sockets:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryId_255215

Do I need to purchase one more similar to this?:
http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...ed=0CGMQ8gIwAg

So i'm currently stuck and have a couple of questions.

1) I have 2 litres of gearbox oil to go back into the gearbox when finished. Is this adequate? - Can anyone tell me what the recommended amount should be?
2) Can someone confirm my queery on the socket I require?
3) When I come to reconnect the lower wishbone to the hub is it worth investing in a crowbar or similar to help? It doesn't look like there is much play in it to do it by hand or by the tools I used to get it seperated with.
4) Finally the replacement driveshaft came with a replacement nut but not a replacement gearbox oil seal. How likely is it that the one on it will leak if i'm careful with the removal and where can I get a replacement one from? A lot of motor factors i've tried don't carry it...

Thanks again guys.
Andy.

I've drained the gearbox oil and re-fitted the

6th January 2012, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_113

Yeah guys, started this tonight and I've so far had a right mare with it.

Here is a run down of what i've done so far:

Drained gearbox oil and re-fitted the drain plug and washer.
Removed battery and tray to locate the breather hole. I think I will have to use this method as I dont have a filler funnel to be able to use the horizontal second plug 4" away from the drain plug.
Next I struggled like fuck to loosen up the lower wishbone nut and bolt but finally managed to get them off. Looks very rusty...
Then I seperated the lower wishbone from the hub using various implements such as a long strudy driver and a hammer. I may have punctured the rubber though....
Next I went to remove the 32mm nut holding the driveshaft to the hub. I used a 32mm socket, put the car in first gear and jammed a large strudy driver into the gaps on the brake disc and into the floor for extra help.
The socket I was using started to slip round the nut which confused me. I think this is because I was using one of the following sockets:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryId_255215

Do I need to purchase one more similar to this?:
http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...ed=0CGMQ8gIwAg

So i'm currently stuck and have a couple of questions.

1) I have 2 litres of gearbox oil to go back into the gearbox when finished. Is this adequate? - Can anyone tell me what the recommended amount should be?
2) Can someone confirm my queery on the socket I require?
3) When I come to reconnect the lower wishbone to the hub is it worth investing in a crowbar or similar to help? It doesn't look like there is much play in it to do it by hand or by the tools I used to get it seperated with.
4) Finally the replacement driveshaft came with a replacement nut but not a replacement gearbox oil seal. How likely is it that the one on it will leak if i'm careful with the removal and where can I get a replacement one from? A lot of motor factors i've tried don't carry it...

Thanks again guys.
Andy.

I've drained the gearbox oil and re-fitted the

1. 2 litres is the recommended amount.
2. have you removed the staves fr the driveshaft nut? (indents on the front face of the nut to lock it into the gaps on the end of the driveshaft.
3. dont need a bar just pull it downwards and push the strut into place, easier if you have undone one end of the drop link if you havent already. when it is in place, i.e. the ball joint is in line with the hole on the strut give it a tap with a hammer to locate it.
4. i've never replaced oil seals (arf arf arf) and they havent leaked on the multiple driveshafts ive changed.

6th January 2012, 22:09

Yeah I've noticed the staves and I think i've removed them using a hammer and chisel.
I am worried about the seals though.... However I don't think I can get hold of them at such short notice...

6th January 2012, 22:29

yes i wouldn't us a multispline socket off i'd use the 2nd one.
as for the box oil didn't the bottle come with a filler neck on it where you pull it out of the bottle like the comma 1ltr bottles.

but as above just pull the wishbone down and push the hub into it it should locate it'self.

to make your job easier if you need to do it again or even to finish this job again get a long bar to jam between the floor and wishbone. loads better than a crowbar, what i use at work can also make removing them sooo much easier as you can push down on it while hittin git with a hammer which will shock the ball joint out. ofcouse bit pointless now seeing as you have got it out lol.

if you can't get the seals then don't bother changing them i only mentioned them cause while you got the driveshaft out you might aswell change it save taking it all apart again if it does leak.

6th January 2012, 22:34

Ok lads i'll let you know how I get on, thanks for the speedy replies.

Just roughly, how much longer do you think it will take? Need the car by about 12pm thats all for rugby.

7th January 2012, 10:20

Guys ive freed the driveshaft from the hub but for the life of me I can't get it out of the gearbox been pulling, using a large driver on the round thing in the middle of the shaft and trying to prise it out.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Andy.

7th January 2012, 14:27

Ok got the driveshaft out. Any recommendations on how to get the new one in?

Ive replaced the gearbox seal, got the driveshaft part way into the box, got the CV end into the hub and the lower wishbone back on the hub. Driveshaft is still not fully into the gearbox.

Should I be able to move the n/s driveshaft by moving the o/s driveshaft when it's correctly in?

Thanks,
Andy.

7th January 2012, 14:33

A tip for removing the shaft from the gearbox is to leave the hub nut on (that 32mm) and pull on the strut as a lever pulling the drive shaft out, takes 5 seconds. This is providing you have remove the tracking rod and wishbone ball joint. Sometimes the drop link too.

Do the reverse to push it that bit further into the gearbox. Leave the hub nut off this time and hammer the drive shaft in with the strut. Or using a copper mallet tap the shaft into the gearbox on the bearing casing.

7th January 2012, 20:48

if it don't go back in all i've ever done is j...j.jiggle it granville

but above is a very good way of doing it.

7th January 2012, 21:59

The problem that I have guys is that there is an intermediate bearing on the shaft that lives inside a mounting. I think this is whats causing the problem but I can't hit the bearing as it will shag it. I've already stripped a couple of threads on the new shaft by hammering the hub end...

7th January 2012, 22:04

Don't hammer the hub end lol.

Just do what I said.

Theres two nut n bolts on that intermediate bearing carrier make sure they are not getting in the way. then line it up and tape it in with a socket extension and a hammer, its tough enough don't worry. just don't hit it like a nut case, then when you cane tighten the nuts and bolts.

It really isn't that hard, just sliding a shaft in lol

Where are you located?

7th January 2012, 22:14

Lol no, probaby not! The whole job has just been a nightmare from start to finish, been supplied the wrong shaft twice and I really don't want to fuck it up. I'll have another go tomorrow, and i'm based in North Leeds.

7th January 2012, 22:21

I was going to offer doing it for you if you happened to be more local.

Good luck, it aint hard

8th January 2012, 11:06

Ok, got the shaft into the gearbox, got the CV joint end into the hub. Struggled for about an hour to get the wishbone back into the hub at the bottom, any suggestions?
Would it help if I had the ignition on for power steering?
Thanks,
Andy.

8th January 2012, 11:16

the driveshaft nut is 30mm not 32

8th January 2012, 11:26

i know mate, found that out half way through. I think they've given me the wrong shaft again. Got power steering on, undone strut downlink and still no joy

8th January 2012, 13:49

Please check the pictures & descriptions and see what you think. I think i've been supplied the wrong shaft (again).

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/?action=view&current=20120108_132054.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/20120108_132054.jpg" border="0" alt="Link arm, Disconnected link arm at top of strut"></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/?action=view&current=20120108_132102.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/20120108_132102.jpg" border="0" alt="Hub outside, Driveshaft fully in at both ends"></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/?action=view&current=20120108_132119.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/20120108_132119.jpg" border="0" alt="Hub inside, Regardless of movement the hub wont sit on the ball joint."></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/?action=view&current=20120108_132125.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/20120108_132125.jpg" border="0" alt="Hub inside, Regardless of movement the hub wont sit on the ball joint."></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/?action=view&current=20120108_132136.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/20120108_132136.jpg" border="0" alt="Intermediate bearing, Is as far into the housing as it will go. Any further would cause the silver box to rub on the mounting."></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/?action=view&current=20120108_132143.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/20120108_132143.jpg" border="0" alt="Gearbox end of driveshaft, Clearer view of intermediate bearing and the gearbox."></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/?action=view&current=20120108_132149.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Andy113/20120108_132149.jpg" border="0" alt="Gearbox end, The shaft seems to be in as far as it will go. There is still some of the raised part showing for the dust seal to sit on"></a>

Opinions please?

Many thanks,
Andy.

8th January 2012, 14:04

sorry mate they are not working.

you need to copy the img link on the drop down menu when you hover the mouse over the picture.

8th January 2012, 14:17

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_132054.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_132102.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_132119.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_132125.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_132136.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_132143.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_132149.jpg

8th January 2012, 14:22

on the 2nd from bottom picture, that rubber bush that is inbetween the gearbox and the intermediat bearing housing. iirc that is suppose to go into the housing.

no idea what that big silver thing is on the hub side but that looks like is running waaaay to close to the sump. maybe wrong shaft.

EDIT: ignore the above lol just seen a picture of the shaft off a car.

are you sure you have a mk2 shaft? iirc they should have tapered ends and not flat where it meets the hub. did you compare the hub ends with your old one? you may have a flat end where you need a tapered one.

8th January 2012, 14:27

The rubber bush deffo doesnt live in the housing of the gearbox, it lived on the outside next to the gearbox oil seal and acts as a dust seal.

The big silver thing is what is on the VTR/VTS models apparently its an intermediate bearing or something but not to worry it is supposed to run that close to the sump.

I believe its the wrong shaft.

8th January 2012, 14:27

What the fuck have you done?

Not being funny mate but I don't think you have enough of an idea to undertake this task.

For the wishbone, angle the wishbone at the angle the hole in the strut is, then push the wishbone down and lift the strut over the ball joint and tap it in.

There isn't really even a method, its like putting a key into a hole in the door.

To be honest mate I think you should get someone who knows what they're doing as you are making a balls up of this job. 32mm socket on a 30mm nut etc, even if it isnt the same size as before or whatever you use a socket to fit the nut you are wanting to tighten or undo not use the socket it should be or what it was and just force it to do its job.

My advise is get someone who knows what they're doing or get someone off this forum to save you, will save you time ball ache and potentially damaging more parts costing you more and more.

Ask in your regional section for a hand

It should have been a half hour job mate.

8th January 2012, 14:29

It could be the right or wrong shaft but I dont think you know 100% what the correct shaft would look like or how it should look fitted so you wont be any better off. A more experienced person will be able to sort it.

And also cant you just look at it next to your old correct one and compare them?

8th January 2012, 14:29

This is where I also think the issue lies. The car is MK2 saxo but it's an early MK2 VTR so the parts place believes that its actually a MK1 drive shaft...

How would the shaft being tapered or not affect it?

8th January 2012, 14:31

so you have the 90bhp engine not the 98bhp one so its around a 2000 plate vtr with a spin on oil filter.

being tapered or flat has something to do with the bearings in the hub can't remember for the life of me exactly what it is but you can't fit a flat shaft to a tapered bearing and vice versa

8th January 2012, 14:33

Take a pic of the shaft to show what drive shaft you have where it slots into the hub.

Then tell us where your oil filter is and how many plugs your ECU has.

8th January 2012, 14:33

Quote:

What the fuck have you done?

Not being funny mate but I don't think you have enough of an idea to undertake this task.

For the wishbone, angle the wishbone at the angle the hole in the strut is, then push the wishbone down and lift the strut over the ball joint and tap it in.

There isn't really even a method, its like putting a key into a hole in the door.

To be honest mate I think you should get someone who knows what they're doing as you are making a balls up of this job. 32mm socket on a 30mm nut etc, even if it isnt the same size as before or whatever you use a socket to fit the nut you are wanting to tighten or undo not use the socket it should be or what it was and just force it to do its job.

I understand where your coming from mate. It's the first job in about 5 years i've done on a car and its only taken me around an hour on previous cars. There is no way that the lower ball joint and th hub will marry up when the driveshaft is in at both ends. I honestly think the shaft is too long. I can't check it against the old one as the parts place have already taken it back as an exchange type thing.

8th January 2012, 14:34

Ok pics of the shafts to follow

8th January 2012, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_113

I understand where your coming from mate. It's the first job in about 5 years i've done on a car and its only taken me around an hour on previous cars. There is no way that the lower ball joint and th hub will marry up when the driveshaft is in at both ends. I honestly think the shaft is too long. I can't check it against the old one as the parts place have already taken it back as an exchange type thing.

Yeh, get a pic of the shaft on the floor.

Your intermediate bearing should be in that carrier and them cam lobed bolts should be preventing it coming out, but it looks like you haven't even put it in the carrier.

8th January 2012, 14:48

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_143605.jpg

Ok the first picture is the shafts that i've been supplied. The top one in the picture was from Euro Car parts that is to be returned. It has no intermediate bearing. The bottom shaft in the picture is the one that we measured up in the GSF car parts. It did look to be the same length, but the CV joint was a different design to the shaft taken off and the bloke told me that this didn't matter.

The car is a Mk2 VTR, pictures of the engine are as follows:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_143809.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_143827.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_143832.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...108_143839.jpg

The oil filter is located more or less in the middle at the bottom of the engine facing the radiator/front bumper and is a screw on oil filter.

8th January 2012, 14:55

ok you have a mk1 vtr engine i.e 90bhp so you need flat ended driveshafts normally.

the bottom one (with the bearing) the head looks to be way to big in comparison to the other one

8th January 2012, 15:24

Quote:

Your intermediate bearing should be in that carrier and them cam lobed bolts should be preventing it coming out, but it looks like you haven't even put it in the carrier.

The intermediate bearing is in the carrier mate, on the shaft it sits just after the silver thing (see the pic where the shaft is on the floor). The cam lobed bolts arn't causing any issues i'm aware of what they do but I was trying at the time to give the shaft room to move when trying to sit the hub onto the balljoint.

9th January 2012, 11:13

Just wanted to confirm that this is now sorted.

As suspected the car is on a crossover year. Mk2 shell but Mk1 engine. Both driveshafts supplied were incorrect and the correct one was the shaft with an intermediate bearing but not tapered. This thread helped explain the issue a lot:

http://www.106owners.co.uk/forums/sh...ft+differences

Thanks for everyones help, it was all appreciated including the incompetence messages too.

Thanks again all,
Andy.