Track Day Wheels / Tyres Advice

11th January 2012, 11:28

Right Guys,

I was going to post this in the track section - but it wont let me?!

I also had a search and didn't find my answers completely.

So I'm currently slowly but surely trying to get my car or at least my plans sorted to hopefully get a few track days done this summer.

I've been looking at brakes and I'm seriously considering some that fit behind 14inch wheels.

This is because I've read that the following are benefits to running 14inch rims:

- The brake pads / disks are cheaper for these smaller ones
- Lower mass wheels/tyres
- track day tyres are cheaper in 14inch

The last point being a big benefit...

R888's in 195 for 15 rims are about 130 each?

R888's in 185 for 14 rims are about 70 each?

But my questions are:

1) Do I need R888's to start with? Should I just use my T1-Rs on standard vts rims? Or is it sensible to get some because they're the same price in 14inch size as 15inch T1-Rs?

2) The 10mm less on tyre width is obviously less grip. Would an amateur notice this reduction in surface grip?

3) How quickly would T1-Rs wear out compared with R888's (in the most suitable compound).

4) Will 14inch rims look stupid?

5) Is it a worthwhile investment if I can get some 14 inch rims cheaper?

Cheers.

11th January 2012, 11:30

I thought tyres for 15" were cheaper? At least that's what I've found when looking at Proxes.

I'd just wrap the vts wheels in a decent tyre for your first track day.

11th January 2012, 11:31

R rated tyres are generally larger than oem road sizes so dropping 10mm over your road tyres wouldnt be noticable, R rated tyres = win

Smaller wheels means less "unsprung" weight = win

using oem wheels is fine, saves money and means extra wonga for track time = win.

Road tyres will last longer until the summer then you can easily rip a set of bits in one afternoon = lose.

You can also get four pots to fit under 14's = win.

11th January 2012, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by holdawayt

I thought tyres for 15" were cheaper? At least that's what I've found when looking at Proxes.

I'd just wrap the vts wheels in a decent tyre for your first track day.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyo-888-N...#ht_500wt_1202

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyo-888-N...#ht_500wt_1202

73 for 14 inch, 105 for 15 inch. I got the prices slightly wrong.

But, I use my vts rims every day with T1-Rs at about £76 a corner for the tyre.

I don't want to burn through those if they suffer more than dedicated track tyres?

I hear what you're saying though!

11th January 2012, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniGibbo

R rated tyres are generally larger than oem road sizes so dropping 10mm over your road tyres wouldnt be noticable, R rated tyres = win

Smaller wheels means less "unsprung" weight = win

using oem wheels is fine, saves money and means extra wonga for track time = win.

Road tyres will last longer until the summer then you can easily rip a set of bits in one afternoon = lose.

You can also get four pots to fit under 14's = win.

Pretty much what I was thinking tbh.

And if I need to drive to a track and back I can take 14's without worrying about having to drive home on my road tyres i've been using all day on track!?

11th January 2012, 11:36

Get a set of S2 rallye steels and whack some R rated on them.

11th January 2012, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniGibbo

Get a set of S2 rallye steels and whack some R rated on them.

When you say r rated? you mean R888's?

I have heard that the steels don't let as much air to the brakes so can cause you to overcook them?

I'm thinking of the speedlines citroen did as standard in 14's? I've noticed a couple of sets up for sale.

11th January 2012, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanSaxo

When you say r rated? you mean R888's?

I have heard that the steels don't let as much air to the brakes so can cause you to overcook them?

I'm thinking of the speedlines citroen did as standard in 14's? I've noticed a couple of sets up for sale.

But they're a lot lighter

Can always get some ducting from your fogs to the wheel arch to cool brakes

11th January 2012, 12:02

Keep 13's and buy cheap formula ford slicks.

Keep OEM brakes until you have had a few track days you'll be fine.

No point spending loads of cash on your car for "track" just take what you have and take it easy. bigger brakes on your first day out won't make a massive difference!

11th January 2012, 13:43

15" oz superleggra's with r888!

11th January 2012, 13:51

For your first few times id just buy cheap rims and tyres you dont need r888 ect and tbh it may not benefit you if the grip you gain is lost in chassis flex from soft bushes ect

Youll have just as much fun on t1rs

11th January 2012, 14:13

fit some decent pads up front and you are all set for some fun, everything else can come later. Look on ebay for track tyres on some 14s/15s - usually someone somewhere is selling a half worn set for a reasonable price.

11th January 2012, 17:53

id say im a well educated track day driver

ive been using r888 for about 5 years now, massive difference between them and a regular road tyre for track, even what some will call a quality t1r road tyre. theres just no comparrison wet or dry.

before anyone complains about r888 aquaplaining can hold your breath! any tyre given a large amount of water will do so.

there are many quality and not so good quality track tyres out there. you could buy used to save money but be aware track days wear tyres unevenly if driven hard. check thyere in good shape first. prices can range a lot, especially if going large 17"+.

my choice would be a 15" tyre on a saxo. its a standard size for a lot of cars making 2nd hand purchases more likely. its also a good size if you want to upgrade brake size. 13" rims are good for cheap slicks but not everyone wants slicks. standard brakes with a good pad choice will be fine (but thats for another thread).

theres more to a tyre than just gaining corner speed too,

you will find braking more confident, feel and overall handling improved. you will also be able to put power down a little more early with a good tyre over a road tyre.

also a track tyre will be designed to work with the heat that brakes and tyres generate on track, something a road tyre isnt designed for.

ive used r888 tyre on a standard saxo vts. loved it.

11th January 2012, 20:03

I overheated standard saxo brakes but was on cheap pads so switched to bigger brakes from a 306 gti. This means i am stuck with 15s. The 306 gti calipers are heavy too.

However the t1rs in 195/50/15 from Camskill work out around £35 each- that maybe where the cheap info is coming from.

Like said above, 888's or A048 or Kumho V70 are very different to t1rs. Depends where you want to spend your money and how much you have! I guess that if you are thinking about size to save money then you wont want to spend 210 on two front tyres instead of 70 then 15s with T1Rs- if you want to go quicker then get your 888s /A048s out.

One of the people at trackdays said the most important things were brakes and tyres- its pretty good advise.

11th January 2012, 20:49

Over heating brakes is 9/10 driver error, it's common to worp discs where you hold the brakes on for too long rather than late breaking/stabbing the brakes..

11th January 2012, 21:18

Fair enough but bigger brakes disperse more heat using the surface area.
Totally applicable for us trackdayers rather than the race drivers.

Surely heat can be reduced but only to an extent.
Woops- Amatuers!

11th January 2012, 21:24

ive never seen brakes glow like that before. they are fucked. haha.

11th January 2012, 21:25

if u pussyz wanna no owt abwt carz den chek me owt wit mi saxoz init. bunch a wanna be cuntz. ya get me

11th January 2012, 21:25

never warped a disc in my life and im using unipart discs at the mo for track/yellow pads,

11th January 2012, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick_VTR

ive never seen brakes glow like that before. they are fucked. haha.

u need 2 get layd

11th January 2012, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexy_gt

never warped a disc in my life and im using unipart discs at the mo for track/yellow pads,

u call dat a saxo?? naaarrrr m8 neva bin a saxo iniiiit

11th January 2012, 21:33

Not sure if you've done a trackday yet mate but I found because the type of Tarmac used there was more grip than on any normal road. So r888 will feel amazing to anything you use on road.

11th January 2012, 22:27

I also heard warped discs were something of a myth. ?

11th January 2012, 22:33

The main point of my post was to say bbk's are a waste of time and
Money until you reach the limits of the oem set up.

Wrapped discs are not a myth. Trying doing a lap resting your foot on the brake and see how your discs fair..

Noobs ride the brakes fact.

11th January 2012, 22:38

I use left foot braking and havent managed to warp disks....
Have managed to burn the colour on s2 rallye steels thought and with oem disks and pads !!

On subject ,
Do 1 or 2 trackdays and if you really in to it start spending on 2nd pair of wheels , tyres , bigger brakes etc.

12th January 2012, 00:20

LOL @ blaming the glowing discs on their driving style. Carbon ceramic brakes have a tendancy to glow when they get hot. Brakes get hot on track regardless of driving style. Therefore, glowing carbon ceramic brakes (as per the pictures) are normal on track.

OP, personally, i'd get some track time under your belt before you start worrying about tyres etc, you might find it's not really your bag, it's very different to driving fast on the road.

Oh, and 'will 14" rims look stupid?', you're on track, how it looks should be pretty low on your priorities...

12th January 2012, 07:20

I did my first ever Trackday when my Saxo was completely standard. I loved it.

It was only after a few days I started to do mods ie lowering etc.

I've done trackdays for nearly 2 years now and only just purchased a big brake set up!

13th January 2012, 17:08

I did my first track day with t1-r's but I spent half the day pushing how far I could go as I'd never driven that way before, after lunch it changed but I found they held up well for my first day