Engine Conversion Guide

24th July 2006, 12:53

right then bin thinkin of this for a while now, i want to convert my vtr to a vts over the autum time.

the main point of this thread is to give me and other people and idea of what is involved, wiring problems, tips, pictures etc etc as im sure there are many other people put there wish ing to do the same but arnt completley clued up about what is involved, i have put a suggestion forward in the suggestion section about a thread like this,

any information on any engine transplants, pics, diagrams, etc would be great help for every1, also turbo conversions/supercharger etc.

even the fitting of cams, exhausts, anything can go in just aslong as it can be used as an aid to people as ive noticed on ssc they have a guides type page, hopefully simo will also read this and think about making a dedicated section for it all to go in but this will have to do for now.

could everybody that has ever done it or has knowledge about it please post up you progress pictures and any information.

NO SPAMMING LIKE CAN A VTS ENGINE GO IN A VTR blah blah blah

then hopefully it can become pinned so that it is of constant use, i dont know whether it will work or how much response it will get but i know that ratty, ax beefy, spencer and esk29 all know about this and there is probly loads more out there so we'll see

cheers guys

24th July 2006, 19:21

to be honest a vtr- vts conversion isnt to bad.

you would need when conversion, all the parts from the donor car/engine

so full engine loom and ecu (unlocked)
all hoses etc..
obviously the block and pref a 's' box
also when doing the conversion its a good idea to change the cam belt, if your skilled do a headgasket.
also you will need, new filters, box oil, engine oil..

i cant think of much else atm.

the general bolting in and out should be easy, and depending on the age of a vtr- the donor 's' engine plugging it in shouldnt be to much hassel.

24th July 2006, 21:24

is this any good to ya:

24th July 2006, 23:55

The above list is good but what year is it for?.... I have diagrams for 3 different VTR setups and 2 VTs setups.... Now there is a certain simplicity to the whole process but how easy or hard it is depends on what components you have.... for example, if you have a mk1 vtr with single plug ecu the multiplug that connects the engine loom to the car loom will have a certain number of pins (iirc its 21) if you get a mk1 VTS engine with single plug ECU then its all plug and play as the car looms are generic to a degree. However, if you were to get a mk2 vts with 3plug ecu then the multiplug will be larger (30 pin I think) this will not simply plug in, and you will have to remove the plug from the VTR loom and wire the vts loom into it. same applies for mk1 vts into mk2 vtr.

There is also another problem and that is the immobilisers, mk1's usualy have keypads and mk2's have transponders (or key chips). if the donor engine has the same style immobiliser then its as simple as either, plugging in the new transponder and changing the pick-up ring on the barrel (but tape the VTS key to the barrel and just use the original keys... remove the VTS key to immobilise) or obtaining the code for the donor engine (keypad is not required as they are all the same). Otherwise you will have two choices.... rewire the dash and car loom with the one from the donor car (more trouble than its worth imo) or get your ECU unlocked by someone so it will work with the original VTR keys and wiring.... this also removes any standard immobilisation features.

I would also suggest that you do alot of homework first!.... and I would recommend buying a decent set of tools... especialy torque wrenches (of appropriate forces) because theres nothing worse than a snapped thread!... tights tight but strippeds fucked!.... you also need to make sure you have everything you need before starting as simply not having one thing can add a day onto the task!.... I would also say have a rough plan of the order in which your going to do things and set realistic deadlines... do not rush!

25th July 2006, 01:56

Looking good so far i have thatautodata cd off you to steve so thats handy, thats why i thought id make this thread so every1 inluding myself can do their homework on it before attepting it, get sum pics up to you conversion heads!

25th July 2006, 02:09

Autodata is the best thing to have when doing wiring on a conversion, although I can't export the diagrams from there to print them.... The haynes wiring diagram although very general is actually a very good tool to use as autodata doesn't show the multiplug connections so you have to trace dash functions back through their diagrams.... oh and I should state that wires that perform the same functions on VTS and VTR have the same numbers on!, only a few are different.

Each wire has a number on each end but may but are usually different colours depending on age. The best way I think is to get the original loom and remove all plastic casing, then trace each wire back from the plug to its end point (the reason for this is on MK1 vtr engines the wire numbers are inside the glue stuff on the multiplug.... m2 vtrs have easily visible numbers on the plug end) and then label that wires number and its function if you know it, like if its an oil connector at the end then label it as oil sensor. Then cut the multiplug off the end keeping about 15cm of wire (with the labels on also) attached to it

next cut the multiplug off the VTS (trace and label again on mk1 versions.... mk2 are clearly visible plug end) and then I suggest using groups of connector blocks and matching the wires.... once you think all wires are matched try the car, if there is a mistake the connector blocks will allow you to swap wires etc. easily.... once the car is running and you are happy it all works properly (you don't even need to connect all the sensors) then get the soldering iron out and solder the wires together that you have matched and use some heat shrink on them to protect your solders

To finish off get some plastic coating off the old loom and wrap the extra bit of wire with it to make it look professional

25th July 2006, 09:48

nice 1 mate, i got a mk2 an im lookin for a mk2 engine so it shouldnt b all that difficult then, just the scrappy by me want 900 for the engine box and everything out of a vts! seen em go for loads cheaper

25th July 2006, 12:51

Me and Ets2k9 got his engine for £500... that was everything in the bay and all the dash loom and clocks.... he also got the struts, shafts and VTS wheels for an extra £50.... oh and the engine had 24k on and a 3 month warranty

25th July 2006, 13:25

where was that from mate?

25th July 2006, 23:21

A place called T+J harveys in wednesbury nr J9 M6..... Theres a bently GT with 6k on it if you want the engine lol!.... They only had 1 vts in, and it was right at the back.... which was a long way!

26th July 2006, 01:06

lol i think i might pay them a visitr though a\s theres a few spares im after and all the scrappys near me are dry of saxo's or theyre completly gutted!

26th July 2006, 01:07

any1 else got any info to add to this? ratty i know you must have sum pics and spencer!!!!

26th July 2006, 16:45

Good thread this. Do you have to plumb in a fuel return line?

26th July 2006, 17:57

i think you do dont you

26th July 2006, 23:02

The fuel return already exists... on both VTS and VTR, you will need shorte pipes for the VTS though... they just connect at the bulk head

27th July 2006, 00:38

nice 1 :Y:

27th July 2006, 08:53

fuel return doesnt exist on all vtrs only blacktop vtrs, so if you have a silvertop you will need to run a return.

27th July 2006, 08:55

oh and i havent read the long posts just the short ones

29th July 2006, 22:11

get sum pics in ratty if you got sum

31st July 2006, 10:27

how do you go about running the return then if it is a mk2 vtr you are doing it on, where does it have to go to and from on the tank?

31st July 2006, 10:46

same place as the other once comes from, can either remove charcole canister and use the return on there, or plumb a new one in either same way current one goes or through the car.

31st July 2006, 11:39

cheers mate, just trying to barter the scrappy down on the price of this engine and then will be away! :Y:

31st July 2006, 11:42

1 other question, if i was to use the vts clocks, etc etc would i need to splice to the vtr loom or will it just go straight in, or is it best to use the vtr loom, i know the vts has more airbags but these are controlled by a separate ECU arnt they under the centre console so what else will be different? and will i need a VTS fuel pump or are they the same?

6th November 2006, 02:32

hmmm, i mite try and add to this thread in the near future

6th November 2006, 09:28

would be good matey

6th November 2006, 09:35

if its any use i could do a guide for how i put a mk2 engine into a mk1 using a mk1 loom and single plug ecu.for a vtr anyway

6th November 2006, 10:08

do it mate it ul help sum1

6th November 2006, 16:18

yea custom_vtr good idea that would help!!

7th November 2006, 00:33

I found when doing VTR to VTS/GTi engine conversion you needed the following.

If you have a single plug ecu get a single plugged vts engine and visa versa.

So you will need...

Engine
Wiring loom ( depends on what plugged ecu you have. Single or three plug. )
Unlocked ecu
VTS/GTi top and bottom rad hose
VTS/GTi rad and fan set up
VTS/GTi throttle cable

Thats the main things you need from what i can remember, il add stuff when i think of it.

Things you might want to get/do are

Use the VTS/GTi gearbox, dont need to but is more suited to engine.
Change the obv things like cam belt, oil ( engine and gearbox ), spark plugs, alt belt etc etc may also think about head gasket?

This has been proven many many times that you dont need to run a fuel return pipe on a VTS/GTi engine.

Ive heard loads of people say you need driveshafts from VTS/GTi but im using my VTR ones with no problem?

Now for tips on fitting...

Plug loom onto engine before it goes into car as its a nightmare wiring it in once in car.
Make sure all earths are earthed very very well.
Dont lose any bolts unless you plan on replacing them.

MOST OF ALL, DONT CUT CORNERS AS YOU WILL JUST GET A PROBLEM LATER ON!!!!

7th November 2006, 00:56

nice one mate, im going to be doing this in the near future. i will ad some pics when i start.

7th November 2006, 13:07

this looks like a great thread guys as i'm quite interested in this as ill be doing this some time but going from a 1.1 to vts gti block...

so i'de need a vts rear brake setup aswell

7th November 2006, 14:40

yes mate, ull need the complete rear beam off a vts as it will have the disk brakes on already

7th November 2006, 14:46

Good thread!
I have my engine already to be put in. Just waiting on the ECU.

7th November 2006, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunderZ

this looks like a great thread guys as i'm quite interested in this as ill be doing this some time but going from a 1.1 to vts gti block...

so i'de need a vts rear brake setup aswell

you don't 'need' the rear discs at all, rears only do about 10-15% of braking. in fact two cars on here are running 16v with rear drums with no problems. you can also quite happily run your 1.1 gearbox, if anything it'll be a little quicker but will scream a bit at the top end in 5th gear.

7th November 2006, 16:28

disks are better for handbrake turns :Y:

nah if your going a vts conversion u might aswell get the vts rear beam, i think the antiroll and torsion bars would be bigger on a vts than a 1.1

7th November 2006, 16:30

I agree Luke you might aswell.

7th November 2006, 22:34

disks are better for handbrake turns

worse imo

7th November 2006, 22:37

also, check that the locating dowels for the gearbox - engien aren't in both engine and box. as when trying to mate these in the dark with dowels in both it takes a LONG time!!!!!

11th November 2006, 16:24

is the ecu in a 98 vts the same as a 98vtr?

11th November 2006, 16:31

different ECU mate

13th November 2006, 01:26

chears for all the comments guy's i just though the disks on the back might be the safer option

but was lso thinking about stiff ness at the back as well and suspention change etc.. but is putting a VTs rear beam onto a 1.1 a big job?? dont the VTs have abs?? sorry for the

13th November 2006, 09:10

use a vtr beam there the same, the disk are the same etc, not a big job easy peasy once hte cars off the floor, disconnect brake lines etcetc and then unbolt, refit new axle and then fit brakes etc

13th November 2006, 20:17

Bin Reading This And Getting Tempted. What Vts Engine Can I Put In My 2000 W Reg Vtr 90bhp And How Much Will It Cost To Get The Ecu Unlocked And Where

13th November 2006, 21:10

You will need a single plug ecu'ed vts or gti engine. If using gti make sure you use the vts loom. Ecu unlocking can be done anywhere from £50 to £150.

13th November 2006, 21:18

Is That It For All The Wiring.

13th November 2006, 21:21

No... please read my first post in this thread.... I know its long but it tells it how it is... for a mk1 vtr you are best getting a mk1 vts engine!... there is alot of wiring to be done otherwise!

7th January 2007, 17:08

hi guys i've read all the big posts and found them very revealing, got a lot out of them, i bought my engine yesterday, managed to find a mk1 vts engine for my mk1 vtr, the only thing is, is that the vts engine has a keypad, can sum1 explain in a bit more detail as to how i go about getting the engine to work without this keypad or how i would do it, cos i dont have it. i also neglected to get the ecu from the car because it was way too expensive. wer can i find a cheap 1 that is unlocked?

when it comes to the wiring (Ax_beefy) i'm not sure if you said a vtr loom will work with vts engine, is this possible? if not what will i need on top to get the engine to work.

can anyone supply torque settings for:

cylinder head bolts-

gearbox bolts-

engine mounting bolts-

just to make sure that these are perfect.

i've done a lot of engine changes on bmw's and mini's but never a conversion, i'm assuming this is going to be a rite bastard to do.

Please get back to me cos i'm mad for trying to get this done before donny show in april.

body kit is getting fitted day after engine is done. wahoo.

Replies appreciated.

Cheers Tony

7th January 2007, 17:19

get a haynes

will expalin all and you wont be doing the conersion "alone" so to speak.

7th January 2007, 17:22

i know that i wont be doing it alone, not silly

7th January 2007, 22:09

I found out that you need a VTS top engine mount for sure. As Williamsvts and I found out. lol!

7th January 2007, 22:13

if the loom was kepad just remove your immobiliser box from your car before wiring it up. ecu wont need unlocked.

7th January 2007, 22:13

head bolts - 20nm then 260 degrees

the other 2 i just tighten as tight as i can.

9th January 2007, 01:04

You'll need the VTS loom and ECU I'm afraid. If you get an unlocked ECU then no problem but if you have the keypad immobiliser on the VTS you will need the keypad itself and the code for the specific ECU you have. If it is the VTR that has the keypad then your best just getting the ECU unlocked. If both have the keypad then no problem just use the code for the VTS

14th July 2009, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

if the loom was kepad just remove your immobiliser box from your car before wiring it up. ecu wont need unlocked.

does this do the same as if i put a mk1 vtr engine thats got a keypad in to a 1.1 106 just dont conect the imobilizer and ill be able to sart it without unlocking ecu