Important! : Saxo wont start at all

1. drlvp Newbie Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 7

   #1 4th April 2012, 19:45

   Hey there. Lets bring you up to speed real fast.
   
   I was given a Saxo cheap that had an immobiliser fault (key light flashing) after a new starter motor was fitted. Up until then, it apparently worked fine.
   
   After a lot of testing and researching, it was noted that there was no power to the main relay under the ECU. The source of the problem was that there was a wire not connected properly to the starter - it looked like an earth loop, but it apparently pairs with the live battery cable. Relay is now powered, key light goes out.
   
   However, it just wont start.
   
   Checked fuel pump pressure, works fine,
   replaced all plugs,
   new coil pack,
   all connectors are connected,
   No fault codes on the ECU,
   i've pulled, tested and restored all fuses,
   and it'll turn over fine on the key.
   
   It seems to be sparking, although its not the big spark i expected (which is why the plus and coil pack were replaced), and if i leave it without any throttle it sounds like its trying to fire but not catching.
   
   Without the airbox on, i get some smoke back through the throttle body showing something burning and the exhaust manifold gets a little warm after a long period of turning it over.
   
   Im not sure what to try next. Ive run out of idea's and im
   
   Any idea's? something ive missed? I just dont get why this car wont go
2. user_38442 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Owner of www.destinyeffect.co.uk radio station live every Thursday Friday night from 7-9pm Posts: 724 vts vtr

   #2 4th April 2012, 19:54

   Ok ok does the car turn over for a start ?
3. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

   #3 4th April 2012, 20:04

   So are you getting fuel through at the fuel rail?Also try replacing the fuel filter.
4. drlvp Newbie Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 7

   #4 4th April 2012, 20:35

   Yep, car turns over fine.
   
   I pulled the fuel hose off and turned it over and theres loads of fuel pressure. With it on the rail, there is lots of pressure - as soon as you touch the valve on the end it gives a healthy squirt.
   
   I was more worried about it flooding than not enough fuel - i have turned it over without the plugs in and nothing came out.
5. drlvp Newbie Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 7

   #5 4th April 2012, 20:35

   Oh.... this may help too - its a Saxo 1.4 Furio 2003
6. drlvp Newbie Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 7

   #6 5th April 2012, 09:04

   Is there any way the timing could be changed through an electrical fault? its almost as if the timing belt has been put on wrong but there are no signs of it being removed, and its tight enough not to have jumped.
7. leej Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2011 leicester Posts: 162 Saxo furio

   #7 5th April 2012, 09:46

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by drlvp Is there any way the timing could be changed through an electrical fault? its almost as if the timing belt has been put on wrong but there are no signs of it being removed, and its tight enough not to have jumped.

   doubt it, its all mechanical tbf my old zafira's timing jumped due to it getting frozen, as yours frozen?
   but to put your mind at rest call a mechanic that will come to you who dont charge call out fees then you just take covers off ask him what he thinks,
   
   but there will be little arrows on each cog make sure they line up yourself.
8. shannon6460 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2009 Swansea Posts: 426 Too many to list but all the Paxo related one's ar

   #8 5th April 2012, 10:30

   crank sensor?
9. kennym1987 Established Member Joined: Sep 2007 Armadale, West Lothian Posts: 1230 flatty 16v sleeper and a regular vts

   #9 5th April 2012, 13:53

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by shannon6460 crank sensor?

   wouldn't be any spark if it was the crank sensor
10. billy-vts Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2012 wolverhampton Posts: 103 Saxo vts :)

    #10 5th April 2012, 21:55

    i had a similar problem, live the alternator mate, with jump lead from battery that got mine going, worth a try.
11. drlvp Newbie Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 7

    #11 7th April 2012, 10:35

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kennym1987 wouldn't be any spark if it was the crank sensor

    
    I thought that may be a possible, but i'd expect it to throw fault codes if the sensor wasnt working properly. It appears to only add a fault code when i disconnect a sensor showing the wiring is ok.
    
    Battery is fully charged again, i'm going to have another go later, i'll have a go at the jump lead to alternator trick too.
12. graham22211 Regular Poster Joined: Feb 2012 blyth northumberland Posts: 260 saxo 1.1i desire and a vectra sri 140 estate

    #12 7th April 2012, 15:57

    is it turning over realy fast ?
13. jones91 Established Member Joined: Jun 2011 Bridgnorth (Shropshire) Posts: 2001 Jdm Dc2 Integra

    #13 7th April 2012, 16:39

    Checked all your fuses?
14. billy-vts Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2012 wolverhampton Posts: 103 Saxo vts :)

    #14 7th April 2012, 19:43

    any luck mate?
15. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #15 2nd February 2014, 19:59

    Hi All, I have a 97 1.1x Saxo (less to go wrong). Unfortunately Friday afternoon brought the doom of a starting issue.
    I have done as follows - got in the car and tried to start it. No signs of any issues but will not fire.
    The immobiliser turns green, the fuel pumps makes it whizzy noise but it will not fire and no amount of pressing the accelerator pedal will make any difference! Any ideas?
16. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #16 2nd February 2014, 20:12

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by adam1093 Hi All, I have a 97 1.1x Saxo (less to go wrong). Unfortunately Friday afternoon brought the doom of a starting issue. I have done as follows - got in the car and tried to start it. No signs of any issues but will not fire. The immobiliser turns green, the fuel pumps makes it whizzy noise but it will not fire and no amount of pressing the accelerator pedal will make any difference! Any ideas?

    In your case then i`d suspect a faulty crank sensor.
17. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #17 3rd February 2014, 00:25

    I have suspected that but if the crank sensor was at fault then wouldn't it be injecting fuel into the cylinders and spitting it into the exhaust or does the crankshaft sensor have the last say?
18. user_44357 Regular Poster Joined: May 2010 Kent Posts: 431

    #18 3rd February 2014, 01:39

    The crank sensor will stop it from sparking not injecting fuel
19. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #19 3rd February 2014, 01:40

    If fuel is getting in and not sparking it'd dump it into the exhaust?
20. Manu Saxperience Addict Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 11714 A6 Le Mans tuned/A3 TFSI tuned

    #20 3rd February 2014, 11:20

    please make your own thread instead of bumping multiple old ones.
21. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #21 3rd February 2014, 13:56

    I had this problem mate and it was the key chip sensor (the bit that reads the chip in the key) put it all back together properly unlike the other person did and no problems since!
22. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #22 3rd February 2014, 15:14

    My only issue is...the key has no chip? I don't think. It's just the very basic key. Where is the sensor?
23. user_44357 Regular Poster Joined: May 2010 Kent Posts: 431

    #23 3rd February 2014, 16:32

    The chip is a little carbon block inside the key. I think that's what he is on about
24. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #24 3rd February 2014, 17:13

    Look at the key looking down the metal towards the plastic you should see a little square mate and the sensor is under the steering surround, take that off 2 torx keys size 15 I believe then you'll see the ignition, round the ignition there should be a cover of plastic, and that should have wires going into it, other than that check all your wiring under the bonnet mate like coil pack plugs etc
25. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #25 3rd February 2014, 17:29

    I think we're talking about two very different keys here mate. Mine is so basic it's just a key with some plastic on the end and a citroen logo. I can't find a google image so shall have to try uploa and link one in at some point to show you although I think checking under the steering column may be an idea. I literally parked it on a kerb the night before and the next morning I've got nothing. Bumping doesn't work and now the battery has gone flat (which I've now disconnected in hope of resetting the ecu. All under bonnet wiring seems together so for something just fail seems really strange!
26. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #26 3rd February 2014, 17:50

    I know what key you've got they do still have a chip in I think, I think trying the ecu is a good idea as saxo coil packs are known for spiking the ecu.
27. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #27 3rd February 2014, 17:51

    It may be locked then?
28. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #28 3rd February 2014, 17:53

    Is what locked mate?
29. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #29 3rd February 2014, 17:59

    ECU? Do they just lock? It hasn't got a cool pack as such in the mk2's this is a mk1 1.1X bogo standard car! It's got the distributor but it's quite possible it's sparking but fuel doesn't seem to get in. Would the inertia switch ever give similar symptoms?
30. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #30 3rd February 2014, 18:00

    I can't find a picture either mate, if it's the key I think it is its a really weird shape? Like high at the sides dips into a flat bit in the middle?
31. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #31 3rd February 2014, 18:01

    That's the one! There's no chip inside mate. No central locking or anything.
32. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #32 3rd February 2014, 18:01

    No mate I think try ecu and have a look at the transponder chip sensor if not then to be honest mate I'm not sure sounds like a weird fault :/
33. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #33 3rd February 2014, 18:03

    Yeah, I do apologise then mate, have you tried taking the spark plugs out and holding them against the inside wing? Then seeing if you get a spark?
34. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #34 3rd February 2014, 18:05

    I shall try taking the sparks out tomorrow mate but seems like there's no fuel getting in. It is priming though which is why I think the sparks are working. Perhaps the fuel injection relay?
35. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #35 3rd February 2014, 18:09

    Yeah mate, and if I'm right then your car will have ht leads, take the spark plugs out and plug them back into ht leads, press them against the wing to see if if sparks, if they do then check your fuel line mate take it out of the fuel rail and get someone to turn the engine over and see if it shoots out
36. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #36 3rd February 2014, 18:16

    Yea it has good old ht leads! I'll check the fuel lines tomorrow. Cheers mate I'll let you know how I get on.
37. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #37 3rd February 2014, 18:19

    Yeah your telling me mate! I've got a 99 saxo vtr and that's coil pack and with the strut brace you have to take the rocker cover etc off to get the coil pack out the way to get to the plugs lol and yeah mate deffo let me know!
38. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #38 3rd February 2014, 18:22

    What's the economy like on that? Definitely thinking more Furio//Vtr soon! It's definitely something fuel related I think!
39. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #39 3rd February 2014, 18:41

    They're not as bad as people make out to be honest mate this one's
    My project and ive done loads to her lol full straight through exhaust, cams, bucket seats etc
40. adam1093 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 49

    #40 3rd February 2014, 20:06

    If the ecu locks, what effect does this have on the car? What are the symptoms?
41. phodd1719 L-plater Joined: Jan 2014 Hailsham Posts: 47 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase 1

    #41 3rd February 2014, 23:24

    I'm not sure what symptoms are mate, could be a number of things but it's not a lot to unlock it I don't think, about £50 I think mate depending who you go to etc. You'll probably need to find out why it's locked itself first though if I'm right