Important! : car electrical fault just occured need advice.

1. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

   #1 8th April 2012, 21:37

   Hi guys my car has been fine however now it gives symptoms of a flat battery. The battery is 3 months old bought new, all earths checked and fine however when driving around tonights its been giving electrcal lacking issues e.g. dial backlights dim really low and when breaking the lights are low and the dial needles go to the start and spring back up when i come off the break. The sterio turns on and off every 5 seconds. The HID headlights flicker then go off completely. However the HID have been playing up lately so put origionals back in and ensured connections are all good i even disconnected the power terminal to the amps from the battery but car refuses to start. Could this very well be an altinator or startor motor fault? as both those parts have been on the car sinse i got it 5 years ago.
   
   Thanks guys
2. user_43898 Established Member Joined: May 2010 leicester Posts: 1446 Clio 182 Inferno

   #2 8th April 2012, 21:48

   when you say the car refuses to start, does the starter motor just click? also its worth getting you battery tested and at the same time check the charge rate from the alternator tbh
3. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

   #3 8th April 2012, 22:01

   havnt got my multimeter handy and it just happened tonight so not ideal. but it primes over but doesnt start identical to a flat battery. the battery and starter motor are the oldest parts to the car. Everyone says its a dodge connection but ive checked them all and all perfect.
4. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

   #4 9th April 2012, 18:42

   ok so got my multimeter and did a test direct from alternator to negative terminal and and on average the reading when nothing powered was 8-12v 12v being the highest on the first and last test. As for + to - on battery terminal it was 11.68 but im taking the .68 being that ive tried cranking the car so many times. Now on attempt of crank alt measured only 3v. without any ettempt og the engine turning over it just makes a fast clicking/ticking noise as if the spark plugs are sparking but nothing responds. This might explain the dial lights dimming and headlights going completely off. So my question is this before spending loads on a new alt. Coud it be the alt or could the starter motor be playing up? Im supprised i still managed to drive the car home with all the electrical parts lacking in power.
   
   Thanks guys
5. user_37892 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Sheffield Posts: 865 On the lookout

   #5 9th April 2012, 19:07

   Sounds like the alternator pal, when the vehicles running you should be looking to get a good 13.8v at the battery.
6. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

   #6 9th April 2012, 19:41

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by thelooneytuner Sounds like the alternator pal, when the vehicles running you should be looking to get a good 13.8v at the battery.

   Yeah your right mate problem is i cant test that as i cant even start the car. How come its done all these funny electrical faults? or is that a sign that power is no longer getting fed to the battery so all im running on is 12v which in essense means 12V isnt enough to start the car?
   
   Thanks plus if im replacing the alt then couldnt have come at a better time as i was considering a diesel alt if i was to get the diesel alt would all the mounts fits just the same?
   
   Thanks
7. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

   #7 9th April 2012, 19:48

   The electrical problems are being caused by the voltage regulator in the alternator because you`re not getting a constant stable voltage your dials are all over the place.A faulty alternator will also drain the battery too.
8. user_37892 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Sheffield Posts: 865 On the lookout

   #8 9th April 2012, 20:02

   Cars dont like it when the voltage drops below a certain level hence why you get the strange happenings.
   
   As stevo said an alternator can drain the battery too if it has a faulty diode, you'd expect a drain of around 3 amps which would flatten a battery within a matter of hours. The best way to check this is disconnect the alternator positive and touch it back on, if you get a spark theres a drain.
   
   Best thing would be to get the car jump started or bump started and see what voltages you have at the battery and alternator and come back with the results
9. user_31412 Established Member Joined: Feb 2009 ★ West / North Yorkshire ★ Posts: 1653

   #9 9th April 2012, 20:40

   Proper alternator voltage should be around 13.8 - 14.2 volts.
   
   Less than 12 and you will have at very least battery drain.
   
   Charge your battery over night and get a replacement alternator
10. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

    #10 9th April 2012, 21:04

    Yeah dashboard was out recentely so will check connections there but will get a new alternator. can i use a diesel alternator for a 1.1 engine only reason is i have a big audio system now and could do with the extra amps. or will the mounts be differant?
    
    Thanks
11. user_37892 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Sheffield Posts: 865 On the lookout

    #11 9th April 2012, 21:32

    Unsure on the mountings, but tbh iirc the diesel is only 70amp and you can get the 1.1 alternators upto 90amp
12. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

    #12 9th April 2012, 21:49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thelooneytuner Unsure on the mountings, but tbh iirc the diesel is only 70amp and you can get the 1.1 alternators upto 90amp

    Ah really? thought it was the other way around as diesel would need more power. How much am i expecting to pay for a alt these days? and does the 90amp ones cost more or will all alts for 1.1 be 90a?
    
    Thanks
13. user_37892 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Sheffield Posts: 865 On the lookout

    #13 9th April 2012, 21:51

    Use our suppliers site
    
    you can check ampage of both on here using advanced search
    
    
    http://www.qxcomponents.co.uk/xref.php
14. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

    #14 9th April 2012, 22:36

    ah cheers but need someone more local to me and need it like tomorrow cant wait for postage as im reling on lifts for now. Also the site doesnt give prices just part numbers
15. user_37892 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Sheffield Posts: 865 On the lookout

    #15 9th April 2012, 22:43

    It won't give you prices due tO them only supplying to agents. Was just giving you an idea of the ampages. If you take the ca part number and ring a local part supplier they should be able to point you in the right direction
16. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

    #16 10th April 2012, 08:24

    ok so i did the tes this morning, got my stepdad to jump start my car. After 5 mins of leaving it to warm up tested the + of alt to - of battery and it read between 12-14v. and the battery + to battery - read 13.98v on average.
    
    Yet after leaving it run idle for another 15mins i switched the car off and streight back on. no sound of the car priming but it did start first time but only just it was quite lumpy. Could this still be the alt or could it be a wire? i have checked all earths in the engine bay are tight and all other connection under the engine bay. I recentely changed the fan belt but i tested that too by pusing on the belt and its on stiff not much leaverage on it, and it circulates ok.
    
    Strange on.
17. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

    #17 10th April 2012, 17:25

    ok so i ordered an old to be picked up tomorrow, £93 for a 110a alt not bad i gave him my reg number and he got that off his system so i hope it will be ok? as the standard 1.1 alts are 70-90a but wont the 110a just mean it will charger the battery quicker or even if i was considering a second battery in the boot on a split charge relay,
18. user_37892 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Sheffield Posts: 865 On the lookout

    #18 10th April 2012, 17:46

    That sounds like a battery fault matey. If your getting 13.8v ish at the battery that's a good charge rate and indicates there's a battery fault pal such as not accepting charge
19. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #19 10th April 2012, 18:33

    As above sounds like your battery has had it.
20. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

    #20 10th April 2012, 21:47

    lol dont say that its 3 months old. it was 13.88v once i jumped it off. and 12.88 sat not switched on
21. user_37892 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Sheffield Posts: 865 On the lookout

    #21 10th April 2012, 22:24

    It's not an impossibility I'm afraid and needs to be checked out. You should be covered under warranty though
22. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

    #22 11th April 2012, 17:46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thelooneytuner It's not an impossibility I'm afraid and needs to be checked out. You should be covered under warranty though

    I checked it when switched off and was 12.88v and when jump started it was 13.88v-14v so surely wont that be just the cahrge rate coming from the battery at that point and when not getting charged its back to 12.88v?
    
    Thanks got the alt today and its got the wrong pully on it even though i gave them my reg number. so have to wait till tomorrow now nightmare never had this much problem with a part before. Aso they would have expected a surcharge for a reconditioned would be better getting one off the scrappy if thats the case as its just ass good as.
23. user_37892 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2009 Sheffield Posts: 865 On the lookout

    #23 11th April 2012, 18:13

    Basically when the vehicles running you should have around 13.8 volts which is charge voltage. Then when switched of the voltage should steadily drop to the 12-13v range. The healthiest battery will hold at 13.2 volts (2.2volts per cell is max capacity)
24. Morgiee Established Member Joined: Dec 2008 Middlesbrough Posts: 2267 Past: Citroen Saxo Forte W reg posi blue Now: H

    #24 18th April 2012, 07:28

    Fixed it was the alternator in the end got it replaced with 110a bosh alt and you can really tell the differance.
    
    Thanks for exeryones help been great