Undoing Manifold nuts without rounding!?

2nd May 2012, 19:19

Hi
I'm trying to fit my 4-1 piper manifold to my mk2 VTR, however I can't for the life of me undo any of the current manifold nuts!
When I feel like I'm getting somewhere, I look and see that the nuts just rounding :/
I've tried drenching it in WD40, I've tried wire brushing the nuts and threads, I've been out for a 4 hour drive and then tried to undo it (vehicle/nuts are hot!)
What am I doing wrong?
How can I do this!?!?

Thanks in advance for any help!

2nd May 2012, 19:25

If you lube the nuts up they've more chance of slipping and rounding

Wire brushing may shave metal in places easing the rounding

And by running the engine and getting everything hot... Everything is expanding making it tighter

Are you using a socket or a spanner?

2nd May 2012, 19:26

Lefty Loosy Righty Tighty...

What tools are you using?

Get a Spanner on there and then use the side of a hammer head to hit the spanner round. Rather than gently applying pressure with your arm and allowing it to round the short sharp hits with the hammer will hit it round.

If you round them off use a hammer and chisel to undo them.

2nd May 2012, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

If you lube the nuts up they've more chance of slipping and rounding

Wire brushing may shave metal in places easing the rounding

And by running the engine and getting everything hot... Everything is expanding making it tighter

Are you using a socket or a spanner?

Agree with everything you say but getting them hot helps!

2nd May 2012, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

If you lube the nuts up they've more chance of slipping and rounding - oh

Wire brushing may shave metal in places easing the rounding - oh :/

And by running the engine and getting everything hot... Everything is expanding making it tighter - so when people say apply heat, is that wrong?

Are you using a socket or a spanner? - closed 13mm spanner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mochachino

Lefty Loosy Righty Tighty... - definitely going left!

What tools are you using? - 13mm closed spanner - drop handle one!

Get a Spanner on there and then use the side of a hammer head to hit the spanner round. Rather than gently applying pressure with your arm and allowing it to round the short sharp hits with the hammer will hit it round. - so like short snaps of force rather than constant pressure? Shall try that!

If you round them off use a hammer and chisel to undo them.- really don't fancy getting to this stage!

Thank you guys - shows there are still decent members aboard the Saxp band wagon!

2nd May 2012, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mochachino

Agree with everything you say but getting them hot helps!

Heat expands them?
Or heat frees them up?

2nd May 2012, 19:30

you need a hexagon socket (socket with 6 sides) instead of a bi-hexagon. As long as its the correct size it should never round off

2nd May 2012, 19:30

It only helps in target areas Danny

Ie you have a nut and bolt right seized... You fire heat directly at the nut it will expand the nut and help to loosen it, obvs the bolt will get hot in the process but no where near as hot

If he run the car everything will be hot, so studs will expand against nuts and holes in head, and manifold will expand against it all.. Making it tighter and also a cunt to get near lol

2nd May 2012, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsi16v

you need a hexagon socket (socket with 6 sides) instead of a bi-hexagon. As long as its the correct size it should never round off

May change to a hexagonal 13mm closed spanner

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

It only helps in target areas Danny

Ie you have a nut and bolt right seized... You fire heat directly at the nut it will expand the nut and help to loosen it, obvs the bolt will get hot in the process but no where near as hot

If he run the car everything will be hot, so studs will expand against nuts and holes in head, and manifold will expand against it all.. Making it tighter and also a cunt to get near lol

So just some direct heat on the nut should help?

2nd May 2012, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsi16v

you need a hexagon socket (socket with 6 sides) instead of a bi-hexagon. As long as its the correct size it should never round off

Winrar

Spanner can round.. Even rings as they're not perfect and have more slots the needed.. That was my next point

2nd May 2012, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Winrar

Spanner can round.. Even rings as they're not perfect and have more slots the needed.. That was my next point

Ignore my previous!
So it's a 13mm socket I need, that is hexagonal rather than '12sidedagonal'?

2nd May 2012, 19:35

Was going to say heat is a common tactic if freeing tough nuts and bolts and other things, but yeh you're right.

2nd May 2012, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolby20

Ignore my previous!
So it's a 13mm socket I need, that is hexagonal rather than '12sidedagonal'?

Ive taken more manifolds off than i care to remember. My trusty snap-on 6 side has never let me down, even ones that have slipped with a bi-hexagonal socket. Also got a 6 side closed spanner for the awkward ones underneath.

2nd May 2012, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolby20

Hi
I'm trying to fit my 4-1 piper manifold to my mk2 VTR, however I can't for the life of me undo any of the current manifold nuts!
When I feel like I'm getting somewhere, I look and see that the nuts just rounding :/
I've tried drenching it in WD40, I've tried wire brushing the nuts and threads, I've been out for a 4 hour drive and then tried to undo it (vehicle/nuts are hot!)
What am I doing wrong?
How can I do this!?!?

Thanks in advance for any help!

took my mani off today and and couple done this, but it was because i couldnt get the spanner right over the nut, hit them with a hammer make sure there on then put all your force towards the engine while turning them, they will come off eventually

2nd May 2012, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cah

took my mani off today and and couple done this, but it was because i couldnt get the spanner right over the nut, hit them with a hammer make sure there on then put all your force towards the engine while turning them, they will come off eventually

- hammer the spanner / got it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsi16v

Ive taken more manifolds off than i care to remember. My trusty snap-on 6 side has never let me down, even ones that have slipped with a bi-hexagonal socket. Also got a 6 side closed spanner for the awkward ones underneath.

- its all about the sockets then actually!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mochachino

Was going to say heat is a common tactic if freeing tough nuts and bolts and other things, but yeh you're right.

Shall try it cold, then try it with direct heat!

2nd May 2012, 22:14

just bash with a hammer. if too rounded off just wedge some mole grips on the nut and replace nuts afterwards

2nd May 2012, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beech36

just bash with a hammer. if too rounded off just wedge some mole grips on the nut and replace nuts afterwards

You should really be called 'bodge36'

2nd May 2012, 22:30

+1 on the 6 sided socket, infact they are they best thing to use on any bolt you can get to with one in my opinion

2nd May 2012, 22:30

lol just get em off then change nuts note wrong with that is there just replacing ur old nuts with some stainless ones with split washers.

2nd May 2012, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben_SaxoForte

+1 on the 6 sided socket, infact they are they best thing to use on any bolt you can get to with one in my opinion

- shall have a look and see!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beech36

lol just get em off then change nuts note wrong with that is there just replacing ur old nuts with some stainless ones with split washers.

This will probably be a final, last resort!

2nd May 2012, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mochachino

Agree with everything you say but getting them hot helps!

getting the nuts hot does definately help, use a 6 sided socket.

2nd May 2012, 23:54

If there is any exposed stud try put another nut on and if possible 2. Tighten them together then wind the stud out. Mine all came out with the studs and went back in with the studs, it's been fine. Failing that just spit at it and call it a coward.

3rd May 2012, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksaxodevil

getting the nuts hot does definately help, use a 6 sided socket.

- this seems to be the common consensus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz2212

If there is any exposed stud try put another nut on and if possible 2. Tighten them together then wind the stud out. Mine all came out with the studs and went back in with the studs, it's been fine. Failing that just spit at it and call it a coward.

Haha it's a coward!
I'll try the stud removal idea too

3rd May 2012, 08:37

I'll just say what everyone else has said lol

Engine needs to be cold, need 6 sided socket/spanner and as said, you need to shock it rather than trying to do it slow (makes it easier, either tap with a hammer or something else) If need, heat the nut up but tbh, by the time the nut heats up the thread will have probs heated up too.

Trying to undo any bolt/nut without a 6 sided spanner/socket is always gonna be risky business, you'll get it off mate.

3rd May 2012, 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baz

I'll just say what everyone else has said lol

Engine needs to be cold, need 6 sided socket/spanner and as said, you need to shock it rather than trying to do it slow (makes it easier, either tap with a hammer or something else) If need, heat the nut up but tbh, by the time the nut heats up the thread will have probs heated up too.

Trying to undo any bolt/nut without a 6 sided spanner/socket is always gonna be risky business, you'll get it off mate.

This is the summary of what I will hopefully try today!!