Front End Weight Loss!

1. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

   #1 1st November 2012, 18:51

   As title really, would like some suggestions for loosing some more weight from the front of the car. I've already removed dash, heater + matrix, washer bottle, front fogs, horn and was thinking of putting a lightweight racing battery in the rear of the car. I can go as extreme as you like! As its not going to be used on the road. Just want to try and balance the weight out a bit more as I'm sure I've removed quite a bit more weight from the rear.
   Thanks in advance!
2. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

   #2 1st November 2012, 18:56

   Get rid of the PAS, smaller rad, slimline fan, sound deadening and insulation,surprised you havent said that one already. Carbon or fibreglass bonnet, bonnet clip rather than the mechanism.
3. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

   #3 1st November 2012, 18:57

   Pas removal removes a lot of weight up front.
   Also the standard fan can be removed and a slim line fan fitted such as a spal. Washer bottle relocated into car.
   That's about it really.
4. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

   #4 1st November 2012, 19:07

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Mochachino Get rid of the PAS, smaller rad, slimline fan, sound deadening and insulation,surprised you havent said that one already. Carbon or fibreglass bonnet, bonnet clip rather than the mechanism.

   Yeah sorry, forgot to say removed sound deadening. Don't know if I could live without the PAS really. Radiator is a nissen alloy one and is pretty light. Fibreglass bonnet and bonnet clips shall go on the list buddy, need more funds though! Was thinking of going at it with a hole saw too, but not sure what's safe to cut away without weakening stuff to much
5. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

   #5 1st November 2012, 19:17

   Considering you are not using your car on the road then the PAS wont be a problem, once you get rid of the PAS you wouldn't want to go back to having it again.
6. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

   #6 1st November 2012, 19:19

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Mochachino Considering you are not using your car on the road then the PAS wont be a problem, once you get rid of the PAS you wouldn't want to go back to having it again.

   Really, would I need a new steering rack or can I just remove the hydraulics off the existing?
7. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

   #7 1st November 2012, 19:28

   Remove the pump and the high and low pressure pipes then job done. I think you remove the ram too, cant remember now.
8. LSOfreak Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2008 west london Posts: 13810

   #8 1st November 2012, 19:30

   if you remove the pump and dont fit a non pas rack, it is fucking horrible to drive with
9. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

   #9 1st November 2012, 19:30

   Surely the ram must be one of the heaviest bits though?
10. LSOfreak Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2008 west london Posts: 13810

    #10 1st November 2012, 19:32

    also, might sound extreme, but if you say its not a road car, anything stopping you from removing the headlights and fitting blanks?
11. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #11 1st November 2012, 19:35

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LSOfreak also, might sound extreme, but if you say its not a road car, anything stopping you from removing the headlights and fitting blanks?

    Maybe, may need to use the lights in the winter or bad weather etc though
12. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

    #12 1st November 2012, 19:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LSOfreak if you remove the pump and dont fit a non pas rack, it is fucking horrible to drive with

    This is just not true. Removing all pas the ram and everything gives a better feel and is just the same feeling as a non pas rack.
13. Rhysupply Infrequent Poster Joined: Mar 2011 gloucester Posts: 211 Xsi 106 fiat bravo 1.8 ph2 saxo vts

    #13 1st November 2012, 19:46

    You can get fibreglass wings aswel mate
14. Dave_P Established Member Joined: Dec 2010 Aberdeen Posts: 2129 Race: 106 Rallye 16v. Road: Mercedes Vito 120 CDI

    #14 1st November 2012, 19:53

    You must remove the ram if you do away with the rest of the PAS gubbins.
    
    I run slicks now and find the rear wheels lift off the ground if i brake hard!
15. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #15 1st November 2012, 19:54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rhysupply You can get fibreglass wings aswel mate

    Really, any idea were from?
16. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #16 1st November 2012, 19:57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dave_P You must remove the ram if you do away with the rest of the PAS gubbins. I run slicks now and find the rear wheels lift off the ground if i brake hard!

    How do you find the steering feel on track with no PAS, is it quick enough?
17. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #17 1st November 2012, 20:04

    Has anyone got a rough idea how much weight can be lost by removing the PAS?
18. Dave_P Established Member Joined: Dec 2010 Aberdeen Posts: 2129 Race: 106 Rallye 16v. Road: Mercedes Vito 120 CDI

    #18 1st November 2012, 20:11

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RickP How do you find the steering feel on track with no PAS, is it quick enough?

    Its as quick as it was with PAS only heavier...
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RickP Has anyone got a rough idea how much weight can be lost by removing the PAS?

    Pump weighs a shit load.
19. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #19 1st November 2012, 20:19

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dave_P Its as quick as it was with PAS only heavier... Pump weighs a shit load.

    What I really mean is does the extra weight of the steering make it slower through tight s bends etc due to the extra physical effort you have to put in. I get that it's the same ratio as its the same rack.
20. Dave_P Established Member Joined: Dec 2010 Aberdeen Posts: 2129 Race: 106 Rallye 16v. Road: Mercedes Vito 120 CDI

    #20 1st November 2012, 20:21

    Don't be silly.

    4 users thanked this post: Beaniemoo, user_31637, manta, user_55718
21. craigmc L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 scunthorpe Posts: 35 saxo vtr

    #21 1st November 2012, 20:22

    inside the front bumper there is like a reinforced plastic bit, between where the bumper mounts onto the front end, i chopped mine out the other day, weighs about a kilo,, i will try get a pic and show you
22. monka Established Member Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 1368

    #22 1st November 2012, 20:27

    if its a 16v fit an 8v alternator and pulletys
23. ryza Frequent Poster Joined: May 2010 ipswich Posts: 961 track saxo Daily beemer

    #23 1st November 2012, 20:27

    I put my pas pump in the boot bear the offside rear wheel with just the filler neck poking out the boot floor so you dont get much whine from the pump and the weights lower down! Washer bottle next to it and on the other side i have a odyssey battery and fire extingusher bottle where the rear seat bench was. So id like to see how much extra weight has been moved about
24. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #24 1st November 2012, 20:35

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dave_P Don't be silly.

    Logic tells me that when something gets heavier it's slower to move. Is that so silly?
25. user_59595 Newbie Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 27

    #25 1st November 2012, 20:52

    I drive a non pas 106 everyday and it feels far better than my saxo with pas, non pas only feels heavier when parking and really low speed and it doesn't take long to get used to that, driving normally I can barely tell and at higher speed it feels a lot less twitchy I don't think pas is really needed on a small lightweight car
26. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #26 1st November 2012, 21:02

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RickP Logic tells me that when something gets heavier it's slower to move. Is that so silly?

    Heavy as in the mass of the car would make it slower to move, not the feel of the steering lol which when the car is moving having the PAS removed isnt a great deal different.
27. LSOfreak Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2008 west london Posts: 13810

    #27 1st November 2012, 21:04

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bedford126 This is just not true. Removing all pas the ram and everything gives a better feel and is just the same feeling as a non pas rack.

    personal opinion and all that, but when the pas broke in my saxo, it was terrible to drive with
28. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #28 1st November 2012, 21:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LSOfreak personal opinion and all that, but when the pas broke in my saxo, it was terrible to drive with

    Broken PAS is near on impossible to drive and sometimes goes lose aswell because of the pressure thats in the pipes.
    
    Remove all of that and its fine mate.
    
    Broken PAS = shit and impossible
    NO PAS = Better than PAS
29. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

    #29 1st November 2012, 22:21

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mochachino Broken PAS is near on impossible to drive and sometimes goes lose aswell because of the pressure thats in the pipes. Remove all of that and its fine mate. Broken PAS = shit and impossible NO PAS = Better than PAS

    Exactly this. With broken pas you are pushing fluid around as well as the ram so makes it hard work.
    
    With no pas and everything removed as long as you don't dry steer when not moving you cant even tell effort wise. .
30. user_57064 Established Member Joined: Jan 2012 south essex!! Posts: 2442 posi blue vtrs race car

    #30 1st November 2012, 22:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bedford126 Exactly this. With broken pass you are pushing fluid around as well as the ram so makes it hard work. With no pass and everything removed as long as you don't dry steer when not moving you cant even tell effort wise. .

    This i noticed earlier was moving mine onto the drive and for a small engined tin box wow it was heavy... Feels really responsive when actually driving tho... Like you can feel whats happening under the tyres
31. Rhysupply Infrequent Poster Joined: Mar 2011 gloucester Posts: 211 Xsi 106 fiat bravo 1.8 ph2 saxo vts

    #31 1st November 2012, 22:36

    There ya go mate http://www.ac-sport.com/V3/catalog.p...echerche#ancre loads different stuff on there
32. Superdupersaxo L-plater Joined: Nov 2012 Newcastle Posts: 31

    #32 1st November 2012, 22:37

    Remove the engine.
33. LSOfreak Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2008 west london Posts: 13810

    #33 1st November 2012, 23:21

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mochachino Broken PAS is near on impossible to drive and sometimes goes lose aswell because of the pressure thats in the pipes. Remove all of that and its fine mate. Broken PAS = shit and impossible NO PAS = Better than PAS

    ahh that explains
34. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #34 1st November 2012, 23:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mochachino Heavy as in the mass of the car would make it slower to move, not the feel of the steering lol which when the car is moving having the PAS removed isnt a great deal different.

    Sorry, maybe I'm not explaining myself right. I'm talking about the speed of the steering NOT the speed of the car. Surely if the steering wheel is heavier to move it is to some degree slower to move. I just wondered if this had any adverse affects on the steering through slower tighter corners where you need to change direction quick.
35. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #35 2nd November 2012, 10:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RickP Sorry, maybe I'm not explaining myself right. I'm talking about the speed of the steering NOT the speed of the car. Surely if the steering wheel is heavier to move it is to some degree slower to move. I just wondered if this had any adverse affects on the steering through slower tighter corners where you need to change direction quick.

    only if you have weedy arms.
36. welshpug Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.

    #36 2nd November 2012, 10:32

    use an alloy engine.
37. user_10176 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jun 2006 Ramsey st marys, peterborough Posts: 8288 Saxo's, Corsa (Daily)

    #37 2nd November 2012, 11:19

    Pas pump and pipes and ram equal about 10 kg lose.
    
    Also free space up for easier gearbox removal and install. Saxo standard rack are all too long really. Ram takes a lot of feel out of the steering also.
38. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #38 2nd November 2012, 19:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KamRacing only if you have weedy arms.

    Ha ha! Maybe I'll struggle then :;
39. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #39 2nd November 2012, 19:37

    Thanks for all the advise everyone! I think I'll go ahead and remove the PAS, just not sure if I should change the rack or just remove the ram etc off the existing one. Is there any real advantage to replacing the rack altogether?
40. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #40 2nd November 2012, 19:44

    swap engine pulleys to alloy ones.
    flywheel to billet alloy.
    Several Kg's right there.
41. user_4681 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2004 Grimsby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 5489 SUPERCHARGED saxo vts

    #41 2nd November 2012, 19:47

    hello rick
    
    fibreglass bonnet. i have one on my saxo.
    
    ccf make good quality ones for £120 ish.
42. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #42 2nd November 2012, 20:01

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sexy_gt hello rick fibreglass bonnet. i have one on my saxo. ccf make good quality ones for £120 ish.

    Thanks Stew, yeah I think I'll go for a fibreglass bonnet with bonnet pins eventually. How much weigh approx do you think will be lost? I hear not as much on a mk1
    You'll have to let me know when your next at Cadwell, would love to come and have a look at your car on track there.
43. RickP L-plater Joined: Sep 2012 Grimsby Posts: 87 98 Saxo VTS 11 Mini JCW

    #43 2nd November 2012, 20:03

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ross swap engine pulleys to alloy ones. flywheel to billet alloy. Several Kg's right there.

    Thanks mate, I think I may need a new clutch soon, so would be an ideal time to do the flywheel
    Also thinking of changing cams next year so my do the pulleys then.
44. Mochachino Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2007 Guantanamo Bay Posts: 28700 oyster card

    #44 2nd November 2012, 20:05

    Get some lighter alloys if the ones you have are not light light can save alot of rotational mass.
45. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #45 2nd November 2012, 20:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RickP Thanks mate, I think I may need a new clutch soon, so would be an ideal time to do the flywheel Also thinking of changing cams next year so my do the pulleys then.

    I mean the crank pulley and alternator pulley.
46. manta Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2009 Jonathan Tonk's yard. Posts: 4232 '85 Opel Manta '88 Manta GT/E '87 Rayleigh Roadi

    #46 2nd November 2012, 20:32

    If it's for offroad non competition use then just break out the grinder and get to work.
    
    Paint is heavy, remove that shit.