Rear strut brace?

  1. L-plater Joined: Dec 2012 Dunbartonshire Posts: 60 2003 Saxo VTS
    #1
    Is it a wast of time welding in a strut brace in-between the two rear arches on the inside?
    I have done this before on a nova and it handled much better, would the same apply to a saxo or is the rear axel ridged and it's not requiered??

    Ta
  2. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Nov 2005 Coventry Posts: 17782 Fiesta ST150
    #2
    waste of time
  3. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.
    #3
    On a saxo yes waste of time,just run with the front upper & lower 1`s mate.
  4. L-plater Joined: Dec 2012 Dunbartonshire Posts: 60 2003 Saxo VTS
    #4
    I have a upper front fitted is the lower front brace worth getting?
    I have seen one fitted and thought it looked a nightmare when it comes to getting on and off a trailer!
  5. Newbie Joined: Dec 2012 Croston Posts: 21
    #5
    Do the front upper and rear lowers make a big difference?

    The car I just bought has them fitted and it seems to drive pretty well so far.
  6. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Kent Posts: 8205 :(s)rac
    #6
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adztherat View Post
    Do the front upper and rear lowers make a big difference?

    The car I just bought has them fitted and it seems to drive pretty well so far.
    The only braces go at the front, there are no struts at the rear!
  7. Newbie Joined: Dec 2012 Croston Posts: 21
    #7
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rey View Post
    The only braces go at the front, there are no struts at the rear!
    Oops, could have been lower front the seller meant then, my mistake!
  8. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS
    #8
    A rear brace wouldn't make any noticeable difference, same goes for the front ones. For a road car which may do the odd trackday it will make no difference at all. Most of these mods have a placebo effect tbh..
  9. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #9
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MaRiO89 View Post
    A rear brace wouldn't make any noticeable difference, same goes for the front ones. For a road car which may do the odd trackday it will make no difference at all. Most of these mods have a placebo effect tbh..
    i have to disagree, i have a top strut on mine and there IS a difference in the way it handles, the front seems more planted, especially when doing sharp fast turns.

    for the cost of the braces its certainly worth trying to see what you think.
  10. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS
    #10
    Fair enough dude, i just think its more of a placebo effect. I have read articles about this sort of thing. Where tests have been done with a totally standard car, a lap time is set, then the car gets aftermarket suspension components put on, tested again, then stripped out and tested again and every time the standard car is faster.

    You would be surprised how capable a standard car is and the development that goes into them is very detailed. I just dont believe bolting on a tube of metal is going to make such a huge noticeable difference.

    They look cool though if thats your thing and each to their own and all that,
  11. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #11
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MaRiO89 View Post
    Fair enough dude, i just think its more of a placebo effect. I have read articles about this sort of thing. Where tests have been done with a totally standard car, a lap time is set, then the car gets aftermarket suspension components put on, tested again, then stripped out and tested again and every time the standard car is faster.

    You would be surprised how capable a standard car is and the development that goes into them is very detailed. I just dont believe bolting on a tube of metal is going to make such a huge noticeable difference.

    They look cool though if thats your thing and each to their own and all that,
    a top end sports car may apply to the above, but with regard to a shopping trolley citreon they do benefit hugely from all kinds of mods, namely suspension components.

    i would be very suprised if a suspension modded vts lost a race to a standard vts around a track.
  12. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS
    #12
    The test was with a 207 GTi iirc. Also Saxo's have very stiff bulkheads which renders strut braces nigh on useless, this has been covered many times.

    As for calling Saxo's a "shopping trolley", you do understand the Saxo VTS chassis is among the most capable of any car of its type and will happily bully much more expensive machinery through the bends, a comment echoed through pretty much every Saxo VTS or 106 GTi review.

    Standard suspension setups are actually pretty good, it takes quite alot to improve upon it noticeably.
  13. Established Member Joined: Jan 2010 Bournemouth/Surrey Posts: 2458 Mk2 VTR
    #13
    Id tend to disagree
    Saxo standard suspension rolls and wallows all over the place

    Stiffer dampers and springs make a noticeable difference

    Also, upper brace doest do much, lower does apparently.
  14. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2008 west london Posts: 13810
    #14
    in answer to the question, no, a rear brace isnt needed. If you look under your car theres a big metal girder doing the exact same thing, its called the rear beam

    From what ive heard on hear quite a few times regarding the front, the lower brace makes a noticable difference, and isnt too much ball ache with catching things unless your lowered more than 40 or 50mm. If you wanted to improve handling i dont know why you'd be lower than that height anyway lol

    the upper brace doesnt really do a lot of difference apart from make the bay look nicer
  15. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MaRiO89 View Post
    The test was with a 207 GTi iirc. Also Saxo's have very stiff bulkheads which renders strut braces nigh on useless, this has been covered many times.

    As for calling Saxo's a "shopping trolley", you do understand the Saxo VTS chassis is among the most capable of any car of its type and will happily bully much more expensive machinery through the bends, a comment echoed through pretty much every Saxo VTS or 106 GTi review.

    Standard suspension setups are actually pretty good, it takes quite alot to improve upon it noticeably.
    i am well aware of the fact they handle fantastically, hence why i have one, shopping trolley is simply an affectionate term and not serious lol.

    standard saxo suspension however is crap, and made for purpose, aftermarket suspension set ups change the handling of them so much for the better it's unreal.
  16. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2008 west london Posts: 13810
    #16
    the difference even a set of lowering springs makes to a saxo is unreal
    theyre so high as standard the body roll is horrendous
  17. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #17
    heres my 2p on strut braces

    90% of the time they are on road cars on standard bushes and road tyres
    yet the brace is to stop the chassis flexing amd on road tyres and soft bushes spring you will struggle to put the sort of load into the chassis to flex it especially on stock bushes in the case of the lower

    i ran with and without and in several setups of lb'age and bushes and i have found on track the following take from this what you will

    road tyres stock bushes 225lb front stock tbars and 24 arb b8s no difference on or off

    r888s on the above slight difference with lower but not huge

    road tyres poweflex bushes 225s same rear end setup marginal improvement

    r888s on and im now starting to get some force transfered to the chassis and notice the difference
    upper started to help

    then up to 285lb 23mm bars and big billes on back and black powerlfex
    proper chassis loads exerted when on r888s and could feel a lot more bite on.turn in.amd car felt more controlled changing direction

    then add a plate diff and again it differed with and without

    to have enough force to get the chassis to flex you need

    200+lb springs
    fairly firm bushes
    and sticky rubber

    this at the LEAST is where imo a pair of braces is required
  18. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #18
    Generally you cannot notice a difference but they do certainly work on standard or mildly upgraded suspension. Maybe not on a sweeping corner, but where the chassis is getting an uneven force through the suspension such as when the camber changes on the road. We've certainly noticed the improved effects on tyre traction (the wheels kept in better contact with the ground). We also noticed a more even tyre wear. Did it feel faster or more planted - no.

    As for a rear strut brace..well it would only help if a car has a strut to flex. You have trailing arm suspension with a massive thick tube running across the car. You would be better off running solid mounts to make it more predictable at the back

    Kev
  19. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2009 chesterfield (ish) Posts: 2685 icelandic grey 53 vt
    #19
    i have both upper and lower and id say the upper makes little difference more for looks 2bh but when i fitted the lower could deffo tell a difference handling wise just have to be carefull over the bumps lol
  20. L-plater Joined: Dec 2012 Dunbartonshire Posts: 60 2003 Saxo VTS
    #20
    Thanks for everybodys reply and input.
    It's all a learning curve for me, I might now consider fitting a front lower brace my only concern is getting the car on and off a trailer might be a pain!

    Cheers
    1 user thanked this post:
  21. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Isle of Man Posts: 9844 92 Eunos
    #21
    Lower brace makes the car look mean as fook IMO. I loved mine, even if it didn't make much difference.