283mm Brakes

1. mattfinch Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Kent Posts: 146 Silver Saxo 1.6 16v Gunmetel Grey Nissan 350z GT

   #1 13th December 2012, 09:21

   Hello all
   
   I know there are loads of write ups about the GTI-6 brakes but I would just like a bit of advice.
   
   I really do want some good stopping power and really want the 283mm brakes and the 23mm M/C. Loads of people say get the 266mm instead as they are lighter.
   
   My main question is are the 283mm brakes really that heavy and can you feel and difference in handling or is it not really anything to worry about.
   
   Any help would be great.
   
   Cheers
2. mechsman Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2010 Bristol Posts: 906 Saxo 1.4i SX 3dr, 106 (engine swap under way), p

   #2 13th December 2012, 09:35

   The 283 calipers can actually be used as 266's if you have the correct carrier and disks (I have this setup on my 106). The extra mass of the 283's mainly comes from the larger carrier. The 283 carrier is larger both height wise and widthways due to the need to be stiffer, so it is significantly chunkier overall. All of that extra mass adds to the unsprung weight of the wheel carrier assembly. Any weight added here can have significant implications for the way the suspension deals with bump and rebound at high speeds. A
   
   ll that having been said, unless you hammer both setup's back to back on a track, or frequently drive down bumpy roads fast, I would think you're unlikely to notice the difference. The 283's may make the suspension slightly more "crashy" over speed bumps etc. 266's are fine for the road, and they fit under most 14 inch rims, unlike the 283's.
3. D4MJT Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2009 Morpeth Posts: 2539 BMW 116d Regional Toner Sales Edition

   #3 13th December 2012, 10:00

   If it's any help mate, I've recently got a set of 283's to fit to my car, and weighed them.
   
   Calipers, Carriers, Discs and Pads for the 283's weighed in at 24.3KG.
   
   The standard VTS items weighed in at 16.6KG on the same scales, so 283's are 7.7KG heavier than standard VTS 247's.
   
   Unfortunately I've not got 266's to weigh!

   1 user thanked this post: mattfinch
4. mattfinch Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Kent Posts: 146 Silver Saxo 1.6 16v Gunmetel Grey Nissan 350z GT

   #4 13th December 2012, 10:22

   Cheers. The only thing Im worrying about is I dont want to put them on and regret it becasue i cant turn or it feels realy heavy lol
5. D4MJT Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2009 Morpeth Posts: 2539 BMW 116d Regional Toner Sales Edition

   #5 13th December 2012, 10:29

   I can't see it like lol. I'll let you know how I get on with mine, I'm not expecting it to be back together till new year like.
6. mechsman Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2010 Bristol Posts: 906 Saxo 1.4i SX 3dr, 106 (engine swap under way), p

   #6 13th December 2012, 10:47

   Oh btw, you don't HAVE to change the master cylinder for a 266 or 283mm caliper swap. I still run the standard master cylinder on my saxo and both of my 106's. I actually prefer the slightly longer travel on the pedal as it allows for more modulated braking rather than just the on/off effect that bigger master cylinders tend to have. Personal choice though.
7. mattfinch Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Kent Posts: 146 Silver Saxo 1.6 16v Gunmetel Grey Nissan 350z GT

   #7 13th December 2012, 11:05

   Mechsman which do you have mate 266mm or 283mm?
8. mattfinch Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Kent Posts: 146 Silver Saxo 1.6 16v Gunmetel Grey Nissan 350z GT

   #8 13th December 2012, 11:35

   I guess all I really want to know is will I regret getting the 286mm ones because of the weight or will I not really notice any difference.
9. Regis_92N Newbie Joined: Nov 2012 Paris Posts: 18 Ford Taunus TC1 1600 GXL(Cortina Mk3) AX 16v

   #9 13th December 2012, 12:22

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by mattfinch I really do want some good stopping power

   Start with a good breaking balance
10. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #10 13th December 2012, 12:33

    You will see more of an improvement in decreasing braking distance by sorting your suspension and tyres. This controls weight transfer forward and improves the friction co-efficient that ultimately gives traction on the road surface.
    If you are suffering with poor braking feel then first try upgrading to a decent fast road brake compound. The standard pads can be so lacklustre and uninspiring for confidence. What you have to be careful of is you choose a pad with good friction from cold so when you get to that first corner you actually stop. Ferodo DS2500 is a very popular choice as well as Mintex 1144 compound.
    
    The benefit of bigger brakes is generally the larger surface area for heat dissipation. Moving the caliper away from the fulcrum can improve pedal feel as less effort is needed by your leg to apply a given force. The bigger master cylinder gives the same effect, meaning less pedal movement is needed in the cabin.
    The problem with the bigger brake setups is they will have an effect on the unsprung weight. You can certainly notice a difference in the quality of the ride and the handling. Whether its enough to put you off is subject to opinion.
    
    I prefer to run as small as I can get away with, starting with the best pads for the environment the car is used.
    
    Kev

    1 user thanked this post: mattfinch
11. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #11 13th December 2012, 12:33

    The best setup for performance is always the smallest you can get that allows your hardest style of driving without fade. For most, this will be 266 setup with good discs and pads.

    1 user thanked this post: mattfinch
12. mechsman Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2010 Bristol Posts: 906 Saxo 1.4i SX 3dr, 106 (engine swap under way), p

    #12 13th December 2012, 14:58

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mattfinch Mechsman which do you have mate 266mm or 283mm?

    On what is now my project 106 (used to be my daily) I run 283 calipers with a 266 carrier and disk. On both my saxo and my quiksilver I run standard 266 set ups. One is lucas calipers and the other is a bosch setup.
13. mattfinch Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Kent Posts: 146 Silver Saxo 1.6 16v Gunmetel Grey Nissan 350z GT

    #13 13th December 2012, 15:17

    I think Im going to go with the 266mm ones now.
    
    Does anyone know if these would be the right ones - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2809933816...84.m1438.l2649
    
    Cheers guys
14. mechsman Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2010 Bristol Posts: 906 Saxo 1.4i SX 3dr, 106 (engine swap under way), p

    #14 14th December 2012, 11:07

    Ask mikol over on 106 owners, he knows pretty much everything there is too know about 266/283 conversions. Most of the pug stuff can be made to fit with a bit of work and mucking about to get the right disks.
    
    Be aware that you will probably need new bolts to bolt the caliper carrier to the upright and you will need a minimum of 14 inch rims to clear the new setup. I have run a 266 conversion behind 14 steelies and also behind saxo vtr rims, and both of those are really tight for clearance to the caliper. If you have weights on the inside of those wheels they will probably hit the caliper. You may also need new, longer flexy lines with the correct end for the caliper you are using as the standard lines may be just too short or may have an incorrect seat shape on the line fitting where it goes into the caliper.
15. tyler1400 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Blackburn Posts: 595 Citroen Saxo VTS

    #15 18th December 2012, 18:49

    I have 300mm hispec 4pots with a 307 22mm master. Stops stupidly well
16. doubleAA L-plater Joined: Aug 2011 Colchester Posts: 41 Citroen Saxo VTR (2002)

    #16 18th December 2012, 20:24

    Ill second that, mikol is the man to ask, hes on here too. I bought a 266mm conversion off him for bout 140 with the correct discs and pads, otherwise you have to fuck about trying to find the right disc with the right offset and the right pads to suit the caliper you buy, as theres a few different ones for the 206 gti. He'll even supply them painted! I more than happy with mine and im running them with the standard mc and some braided lines i bought off swampy on here also!
    
    
    
    This is how they looked the day i fitted them
17. mattfinch Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Kent Posts: 146 Silver Saxo 1.6 16v Gunmetel Grey Nissan 350z GT

    #17 19th December 2012, 14:57

    Just got the brakes through the post the other day and they are the same ones as you picture. All I need now is some good disc and pads and then I should be alright.
    
    Cheers
18. Pricklep Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5

    #18 19th December 2012, 15:05

    Those are the disk/pads i got for my 266s.
    
    
    
    http://www.camskill.co.uk/m33b0s3369...rd_Brake_Pads_
    
    http://www.camskill.co.uk/m33b0s5713..._Discs_-_Pair_
    
    To double check yours are the same read this thread as theres a couple of types. I have the exact ones the OP bought from that ebay link aswell which are Early 266mm BOSCH Caliper (Round Ended Pads) [Type 1]
    
    http://106owners.co.uk/forums/showth...rmation-Thread

    1 user thanked this post: mattfinch
19. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #19 19th December 2012, 15:06

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tyler1400 I have 300mm hispec 4pots with a 307 22mm master. Stops stupidly well

    on what car with what wheels? I looked in your progress blog but presume you mean another car?
20. mattfinch Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Kent Posts: 146 Silver Saxo 1.6 16v Gunmetel Grey Nissan 350z GT

    #20 19th December 2012, 15:36

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Prickle Those are the disk/pads i got for my 266s. http://www.camskill.co.uk/m33b0s3369...rd_Brake_Pads_ http://www.camskill.co.uk/m33b0s5713..._Discs_-_Pair_ To double check yours are the same read this thread as theres a couple of types. I have the exact ones the OP bought from that ebay link aswell which are Early 266mm BOSCH Caliper (Round Ended Pads) [Type 1] http://106owners.co.uk/forums/showth...rmation-Thread

    Thanks for that. That is just what I need.
    
    Really Grateful
21. mattfinch Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Kent Posts: 146 Silver Saxo 1.6 16v Gunmetel Grey Nissan 350z GT

    #21 19th December 2012, 15:44

    Also one other thing the calipers did not come with the two bolts that hold them to the leg of the car. Do I need to get these two bolts or will the standard saxo ones fit all the same?
22. mechsman Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2010 Bristol Posts: 906 Saxo 1.4i SX 3dr, 106 (engine swap under way), p

    #22 19th December 2012, 15:57

    You will probably need new ones to be honest. They aren't expensive from pug/citreon. Easiest way to tell is to measure the width of the carrier at the bolt holes (i.e. how thick is the carrier where it bolts to the strut?). If your original ones are the same then you'll probably be ok. If the new carriers are thicker by a significant amount you will need the new bolts.

    1 user thanked this post: mattfinch
23. mattfinch Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2007 Kent Posts: 146 Silver Saxo 1.6 16v Gunmetel Grey Nissan 350z GT

    #23 19th December 2012, 16:13

    Ok mate cheers. Will have a look over the weekend
24. mlawlan69 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo

    #24 19th December 2012, 16:40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ross on what car with what wheels? I looked in your progress blog but presume you mean another car?

    he bought this car Ross, the jammy little get.
    
    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=439926
25. Mikol Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament

    #25 29th December 2012, 20:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by doubleAA Ill second that, mikol is the man to ask, hes on here too. I bought a 266mm conversion off him for bout 140 with the correct discs and pads, otherwise you have to fuck about trying to find the right disc with the right offset and the right pads to suit the caliper you buy, as theres a few different ones for the 206 gti. He'll even supply them painted! I more than happy with mine and im running them with the standard mc and some braided lines i bought off swampy on here also! This is how they looked the day i fitted them

    Thanks for the recommendation buddy, always good to hear some honest feedback
    
    They look great fitted there - will you mind if I lift the image to use for promotional stuff if I get back into selling them? At the moment I'm taking a little break while I study for my masters - winter isn't conducive to playing outside with filthy brakes!