VTS Timing help

14th January 2013, 09:31

After doing the headgasket on staurday our timing is off. I have read the Headgasket/Cambelt guide but it doesnt say much in the way of lining it up again after.

Right Sprocket

Untitled by JayS_182, on Flickr

Left Sprocket

Untitled by JayS_182, on Flickr

As you can see one is pretty close whilst the other is some way off.

To get it timed up again is it a case of locking the flywheel fit new belt on loose, loosen the 3 bolts on each sprocket then turn the engine over on the crank? If so which way do i turn the crank?

Thanks

14th January 2013, 12:03

Whatever you do DO NOT turn the engine over you WILL bend the valves,

Your supposed to keep the locking pins in the head and fly BEFORE removing the head.

Its going to be difficult to get it all timed up now, first of all I'd remove all the plugs, On the bottom crank pulley there is a TDC mark, now your going to have to be very careful while turning the crank pulley until the marks line up, you have to be v careful as you could bend the valves even by hand! so if you cant turn the crank pulley with gentle/reasonable force then your probably touching the valves, release a bit of pressure on the crank and check plug holes and adjust the cam pulleys accordingly typically towards the marks. obviously depends how far all of your marks are off as you may have to go a complete cycle!

Look in the plug holes and check that two of the cylinders are at TDC either 1 and 4 or 3 and 2. then move the Cam pulleys to the locating holes and put something in them to lock them, along with the flywheel lock, Then proceed with fitting cambelt. If your not that clued up I'd get a garage to do it for you, because if you get it wrong say bye bye to your engine!

14th January 2013, 12:10

2 & 3 are currently at full stroke.

turning the crank is only clockwise is that right? Could i not turn the bottom end over to get the flywheel pin in?

I had the pins in before taking the head off but the place that sklimmed it and removed the cams etc have put it back like that. I asked them if i needed to bring it in with the pins in and they said no.

Once i have the flywheel pin in and the bottom is locked to TDC then turn the cams to match the timing slots, Pin them in. Then fit new belt?

Sound right?

picture of the pistons once the head had come off.

Untitled by JayS_182, on Flickr

14th January 2013, 12:55

Ok for starters, in that pic pistons 2 & 3 don't appear to be at TDC, I may be wrong though has been a while since I've had a VTS head off, normally should be pretty much flush with the top of the block,

you shouldn't turn the bottom end over when the head is off general practice in case its running liners but VTS doesn't.

Yea it will be difficult to turn it over by hand with the plugs still in, If you took the plugs out it would of been fine to turn over with a breaker bar on the bottom pulley.

Have a look on your bottom pulley, there should be marks on your inner cam cover and bottom pulley (may need a clean up).

Really this should of all been done Before taking the head off, and really should of put the head on with the cam pulley pins in place (as long as the bottom pulley hasn't moved) Now with it on there is a risk if your not careful of damaging valves and pistons.

since the head has been on have you:

1) Turned the bottom pulley? (even if its a few mm)
2) Tried to line up the cam pulleys with a bar or anything but by hand

If to any of the above is yes then I'd advise taking the head off and checking if the pistons or valves are dented or slightly bent.

What you have said is sort of right yes BUT I don't know the position of the valves when you put the head on. you will have to do it bit by bit, to bring the bottom end onto the TDC marks, ie move the crank, then adjust cam pulleys, otherwise you could damage internals again.

EDIT: from that pic your deffo not at TDC!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayzlife

2 & 3 are currently at full stroke.

turning the crank is only clockwise is that right? Could i not turn the bottom end over to get the flywheel pin in?

I had the pins in before taking the head off but the place that sklimmed it and removed the cams etc have put it back like that. I asked them if i needed to bring it in with the pins in and they said no.

Once i have the flywheel pin in and the bottom is locked to TDC then turn the cams to match the timing slots, Pin them in. Then fit new belt?

Sound right?

picture of the pistons once the head had come off.

Untitled by JayS_182, on Flickr

14th January 2013, 13:11

Thanks for the info great help.

The head is back on at the minute and all tightened down etc, Cams havent moved, bottom end hasnt been turned over since we removed the head nor has it been moved now the head is back on.

So im ok to whip the plugs out and get it to TDC. The valves are all currently seated at the minute.

I just put the cam sprockets on to check the condition of the timing nothing else has been touched.

I dont want to be remvoing the head again if i can avoid it.

14th January 2013, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayzlife

Thanks for the info great help.

The head is back on at the minute and all tightened down etc, Cams havent moved, bottom end hasnt been turned over since we removed the head nor has it been moved now the head is back on.

So im ok to whip the plugs out and get it to TDC. The valves are all currently seated at the minute.

I just put the cam sprockets on to check the condition of the timing nothing else has been touched.

I dont want to be remvoing the head again if i can avoid it.

Its Incredibly difficult to say for sure from this side of the comp screen, and explain as well. the best advice i can give is to buy a haynes manual for it, that explains it in great detail with pictures, will be well worth it and you will be sure to get it right!.

14th January 2013, 13:29

Ok thanks,

Would it be best to get all the pistons half way up the bore. Set the cams, move crank to TDC then tighten the belt up?

14th January 2013, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayzlife

Ok thanks,

Would it be best to get all the pistons half way up the bore. Set the cams, move crank to TDC then tighten the belt up?

What "I" would do in this situation I'd release the cam carrier so that the cams spring out, (you've had them off already so doesn't matter) that way your guaranteed no valve bending, then move the crank to TDC on the markings (you've got to go 180 deg as piston 1 is near enough at BDC). Then Lock the flywheel, shine a light in piston 1 check its at TDC, or put a magnetic pen thing in always useful to test. Then put cams back in making sure as you put them in to put they roughly line up on the TDC locating holes. once cam carrier is back on, then put drill bit in the locating holes for the cams and then put the belt on.

But yes you could easily do it that way you suggested.

14th January 2013, 15:28

Cheers Jordy.

Will speak to my build partner see which method we agree on. I like the idea of the cams out or all the pistons at mid way to give room for error just incase.