need to get to bottom of no heat

  1. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #1
    hey need to get to the bottom of this no heat issue in the car 2002 saxo vts heat is sometimes there and sometimes its cold things i have done so far to try sort this is

    1. flushed the full system with raditor flush and hose and re fileed with fresh water and coolant.
    2. new thermostate.
    3. checked the hot and cold inside the car the wire is still attached and moving parts

    what else could it be????

    i no it could be heater matrix would you suggest i change this for a new one for sake of £25 if so can someone give me good advise how to get the pipes off the matrix going into the bulkhead do i need to remove the inlet just its very tight in there
  2. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #2
    Have bled the system using the header tank method?
    Also was the system flushed with the stat removed and then the housing refitted and a hose removed so the water was flowing clear?
  3. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gandi699 View Post
    Have bled the system using the header tank method?
    Also was the system flushed with the stat removed and then the housing refitted and a hose removed so the water was flowing clear?
    yeah removed thermostate and replaced housing while flushing and used a 2 ltr bottle with bottom cut off to bleed and push water through

    also i bleed by

    1st top radiator
    2nd thermostate
    3rd top left bleed nipple

    air is usually luke warm sometimes its hot cant work this out when flushing water was brown and ran it till was clear
  4. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #4
    Ok well it sounds like its flushed properly but I think you've missed a section
    What you need to do is get the 2l pop bottle in the filler neck of the radiator, with a good seal so it doesnt leak too much. Start filling the system with all the bleed points open
    I personally lock off top left one first once water comes out in a steady stream, keeping filling the whole time so the level in the bottle doest drop, then the stat bleed point, then the radiator one. Then the start the car and let it get warm so the thermo stat opens, keeping the level in the 2l bottle over half way. You'll know when the stat is open as the coolant will start to mix in the 2l pop bottle and usually bubbles will come up in the water.
    Wait for the fan to come on and off a couple of a times, then shut the car down and let it cool naturally leaving your pop bottle in the radiator neck the whole time. The will effectively fill the system as its cools ensuring no air is in there.
    Once done, either top up or remove a little bit of coolant in the radiator so its at the right level. Job done.
  5. L-plater Joined: Jan 2012 Bicester Posts: 58 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase Deux
    #5
    i usually open the top left bleed nipple till water is pouring out, make sure its hot, you may get burnt though, keep steady revs, obvs leave the coolant cap off, possibly get a mate to help
  6. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #6
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gandi699 View Post
    Ok well it sounds like its flushed properly but I think you've missed a section
    What you need to do is get the 2l pop bottle in the filler neck of the radiator, with a good seal so it doesnt leak too much. Start filling the system with all the bleed points open
    I personally lock off top left one first once water comes out in a steady stream, keeping filling the whole time so the level in the bottle doest drop, then the stat bleed point, then the radiator one. Then the start the car and let it get warm so the thermo stat opens, keeping the level in the 2l bottle over half way. You'll know when the stat is open as the coolant will start to mix in the 2l pop bottle and usually bubbles will come up in the water.
    Wait for the fan to come on and off a couple of a times, then shut the car down and let it cool naturally leaving your pop bottle in the radiator neck the whole time. The will effectively fill the system as its cools ensuring no air is in there.
    Once done, either top up or remove a little bit of coolant in the radiator so its at the right level. Job done.
    great ill try this tonight ill not need to drop the wole water out will i just leave exsiting water in yeah and bleed again if to much water is in were am i best of letter it out from which bleed point
  7. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 134
    #7
    take the hose off the rear of the block and the other off the underside of the water pump..take a hose pipe to the rear pipe where it goes through the bulkhead using loeads of duck tape. Then turn hose on and leave it for a while...it'll clear loads of shit out the internal matrix
  8. L-plater Joined: Jan 2012 Bicester Posts: 58 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase Deux
    #8
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tease1986 View Post
    great ill try this tonight ill not need to drop the wole water out will i just leave exsiting water in yeah and bleed again if to much water is in were am i best of letter it out from which bleed point
    just keep the existing water in there bud
  9. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #9
    would air in system not free its self and will this explain why i have only warm ish air as air in matrix is not filled with water its full of air
  10. L-plater Joined: Jan 2012 Bicester Posts: 58 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase Deux
    #10
    you have to run it for a while for the air to escape, so open the left hand bleed screw till it literally pissing out, not dribbling then rev it at around 2000rpm for a bit with the rad cap off, keep an eye on the temp
  11. L-plater Joined: Jan 2012 Bicester Posts: 58 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase Deux
    #11
    obviously once its pissing out the bleed hole, put the valve cap back on
  12. L-plater Joined: Jan 2012 Bicester Posts: 58 Citroen Saxo VTR Phase Deux
    #12
    also, is the water pump ok
  13. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #13
    how do i check water pump is working ok without removing it lol
  14. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #14
    Check the level drops when you rev the car and the stat is open. if it does the pump is OK, I think you'll be fine there.
    With these cooling systems its making the header tank aka the 2l pop bottle the highest point in the system so the air car escape, as currently its sitting in the matrix as its the highest point in the system currently which is why the air isnt hot coming out the blowers. Cars with conventionally mounted header tanks in the engine bay dont suffer from this problem as much.
  15. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tease1986 View Post
    great ill try this tonight ill not need to drop the wole water out will i just leave exsiting water in yeah and bleed again if to much water is in were am i best of letter it out from which bleed point
    To remove the excess water in the header tank if theres to much heres what you do: Wait for the car to cool fully so its stone cold, remove the header tank if you haven't already or the radiator cap. Then use a suction tool to suck a bit of the water out to the upper mark or get a bit of pipe put it in the filer neck and syphon some coolant out being careful not swallow the antifreeze as its poisonous and tastes worse than anything ever. Then just get it to the right level doing this/top up to the mark, cap on and done. Bosh.
    1 user thanked this post:
  16. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #16
    ok pal so i did this just know and still no hot heat only just warm heat u think my heater matrix is blocked up and needs replacing i have toke all air out of system
  17. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2013 Derby Posts: 216 Mauritius blue Saxo vtr
    #17
    heater matrix?
  18. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #18
    thats what im saying think i need to buy new one ;-(
  19. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #19
    Have you tried draining the system, disconnect the matrix pipes and back flush it with a hose? then go through the fill and bleed procedure. if not then its a new one time, providing you dont bypass it until you can change it.
  20. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gandi699 View Post
    Have you tried draining the system, disconnect the matrix pipes and back flush it with a hose? then go through the fill and bleed procedure. if not then its a new one time, providing you dont bypass it until you can change it.
    tbf i have not tried to remove the pipes off the matrix and back flush it those pipes are a pain in arse to remove wud u suggest try this first pal can back flushing it work
  21. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 134
    #21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tease1986 View Post
    tbf i have not tried to remove the pipes off the matrix and back flush it those pipes are a pain in arse to remove wud u suggest try this first pal can back flushing it work
    Thats what I treid to explain to you in my earlier post. No need to remove pipes from matrix...take them off at the block end behind the timing cover and below the water pump
  22. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #22
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stigsdump View Post
    Thats what I treid to explain to you in my earlier post. No need to remove pipes from matrix...take them off at the block end behind the timing cover and below the water pump
    aww right ill try this tomorrow i did look pal tho on mine the vts one goes to the thermostate housing and other to the back of the block
  23. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH
    #23
    It's thermostat*

    Also Finish dish washer tabs in boiling water flushed through the heater matrix will remove all calcium and antifreeze up in there.

    Unless something like rad leak had been used then the internals will be solid.
    1 user thanked this post:
  24. Established Member Joined: May 2010 leicester Posts: 1446 Clio 182 Inferno
    #24
    OP have you felt both of the pipes going in and coming out of the matrix to begin with, this will tell you if the heater matrix alone is at fault, is one hot and the other cold? Also whilst you have the bleed screw off give the engine a rev, if the water running out on idle suddenly spurts even more out when you rev it then the pump is working , but if your pump is goosed and youve been driving around i would have thought the engine would be well cooked and blown the headgasket by now lol
  25. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #25
    NAa mate pump fine water blasts out when rev wen bleed is open and yes both pipes are hot so defo thinking matrix is blocked gunna try flush matrix this morning someone advised to use caustic soda ???
  26. Established Member Joined: May 2010 leicester Posts: 1446 Clio 182 Inferno
    #26
    Both heater pipes are hot? if the one going in is hot and the matrix outlet is hot then the water is flowing through. Are your heater fans blowing, also when you move the temperature adjustment slider does it feel like or sound like its working/ opening the air flaps, or does it just move really freely. What im getting at is that it could just be the heater setting are stuck on cold because the rod/cable behind the heater panel is broken and wont move the air flaps that switch from hot to cold
  27. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #27
    all done mate stuck some limescale remover what u put in dish washers into heater matrix pipes left 30 mins then back flushed it was full of lumpy brown shit bleed it properly now its like jamica haha hot hot hot :-)
  28. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #28


    this is what ya need to use if ya matrix is blocked :-)
  29. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #29
    Remove the pipe from the thermostat end, that's easy to do then do the other one if you can, where it returns into the system by the Engine mount. its a lot easier that way then pulling the pipes off from the matrix itself. By the sounds of this you are going to need a new matrix
  30. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #30
    Mate u not read me post lol it's fixed I sorted it today it's hot now in my sax lol
  31. Established Member Joined: May 2010 leicester Posts: 1446 Clio 182 Inferno
    #31
    Good to hear
  32. Established Member Joined: May 2008 north east Posts: 1415 2002 saxo vts
    #32
    Cheers pal sometimes take it for granted haha love the heat when it's cold like this
  33. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #33
    Good to know its fixed, was on my phone and it hadnt updated it
  34. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH
    #34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bedford126 View Post
    It's thermostat*

    Also Finish dish washer tabs in boiling water flushed through the heater matrix will remove all calcium and antifreeze up in there.

    Unless something like rad leak had been used then the internals will be solid.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tease1986 View Post
    all done mate stuck some limescale remover what u put in dish washers into heater matrix pipes left 30 mins then back flushed it was full of lumpy brown shit bleed it properly now its like jamica haha hot hot hot :-)
    If only there was a thank's button when some one suggests something that saves you a fortune and loads of time.