dare i ask this

1. mlawlan69 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo

   #1 21st February 2013, 19:14

   Recently had a VTS conversion done to my furio, car runs, but it is drinking petrol like there is no tomorrow, infact its done around 80 miles to £40..... Yes that bad.
   
   The idle is as lumpy as shit and the power only comes in at 4-5k up to then it feels almost sluggish, but it pulls like a train to 7250 and still wants to rev more, it feels honestly like its just getting started and its limited.
   
   The garage that did the conversion told me compared to normal cams these aren't them and are now convinced its cammed, so there i said it.
   I had a play with a EP3 on the way home on the M1 and he couldnt catch me, he only got me on the slip road but I was slowing down.
   
   I had never driven a vts before so i wasnt sure what to expect, but this certainly isnt what it was i expected...
   
   What I want to know is tell tale signs of cams and if 1mpg is normal with in mapped cams, because I can't afford to run it.
2. bbracer16valver L-plater Joined: Sep 2011 glos/bris area Posts: 58 '91 R19 16v chamade f7r powered '03 mk2 VTR

   #2 21st February 2013, 19:16

   LOL! ep3 aint got nowt on vts power to weight !!!!!
3. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

   #3 21st February 2013, 19:41

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by mlawlan69 Recently had a VTS conversion done to my furio, car runs, but it is drinking petrol like there is no tomorrow, infact its done around 80 miles to £40..... Yes that bad. The idle is as lumpy as shit and the power only comes in at 4-5k up to then it feels almost sluggish, but it pulls like a train to 7250 and still wants to rev more, it feels honestly like its just getting started and its limited. The garage that did the conversion told me compared to normal cams these aren't them and are now convinced its cammed, so there i said it. I had a play with a EP3 on the way home on the M1 and he couldnt catch me, he only got me on the slip road but I was slowing down. I had never driven a vts before so i wasnt sure what to expect, but this certainly isnt what it was i expected... What I want to know is tell tale signs of cams and if 1mpg is normal with in mapped cams, because I can't afford to run it.

   We will have a look tomorrow mate I got a feeling its the map sensor but will find out after we plugged it in if it is its no biggie Andrew page stock them.
   
   

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by bbracer16valver LOL! ep3 aint got nowt on vts power to weight !!!!!

   Shut up you fucking mug.
4. bbracer16valver L-plater Joined: Sep 2011 glos/bris area Posts: 58 '91 R19 16v chamade f7r powered '03 mk2 VTR

   #4 21st February 2013, 19:46

   even my williams powered 21 year old 19 blows a ep3 on a straight and a vts is infront of me so how about you shut the fuck up? everyones got a opinion whats with all the hostile twats on ere! loads no me seems only the dickheads like to pop up with the comments!
5. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

   #5 21st February 2013, 19:48

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by bbracer16valver even my williams powered 21 year old 19 blows a ep3 on a straight and a vts is infront of me so how about you shut the fuck up? everyones got a opinion whats with all the hostile twats on ere! loads no me seems only the dickheads like to pop up with the comments!

   whatever.

   3 users thanked this post: user_34323, user_39461, elliotthorwood
6. Cam Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2010 Kent Posts: 8439 Gen 7 Celica 190.

   #6 21st February 2013, 19:49

   
7. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #7 21st February 2013, 19:52

   Load of bollocks in this thread but anyway, take the cam covers off and have a look?
8. Saxjoe Regular Poster Joined: Feb 2012 Northamptonshire Posts: 280 Renault Kangoo and currently saxoless :(

   #8 21st February 2013, 19:52

   EP3 is a true hot hatch, saxo vts' barely warm.
9. elliotthorwood Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2012 bristol Posts: 168 Mk1 (mk2 in disguise) vtr turbo.. sort of. (N3 EBH

   #9 21st February 2013, 19:56

   #internetbadboy
   
   Sent from my iPad 4 using tapatalk 3
10. Saxjoe Regular Poster Joined: Feb 2012 Northamptonshire Posts: 280 Renault Kangoo and currently saxoless :(

    #10 21st February 2013, 19:58

    I'm really going off saxos
11. hillyberry2009 Infrequent Poster Joined: Feb 2013 Walsall Posts: 119 Saxo Vtr black 03 plate current, pug 106 gti.pug 2

    #11 21st February 2013, 20:00

    keyboard warrior lmao
12. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #12 21st February 2013, 20:14

    You say its sluggish from low RPMS then pulls like a train high up seems to me its running stoooooopidly rich and when flat out the mixture alters itself enough to run half okay, but still not enough to run correctly, but low down its flooding itself, i imagine its something silly like a sensor gone e.g lambda or map but id get about 80 miles to 20 quid of full on spirited driving in my R, so yeah thats not right! i love VTS' though they suprise so much! my pal had a 16v rallye and had EP3 owners saying they couldnt catch him, best thing was they reg checked to see what it was and being an S1 was brining up a 1.3 Great engines i love them!
13. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #13 21st February 2013, 20:16

    That's quite enough of the personal attacks. I've tidied the thread now cut that shit out. Keep this on topic.

    1 user thanked this post: Saxjoe
14. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #14 21st February 2013, 20:19

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by James93 You say its sluggish from low RPMS then pulls like a train high up seems to me its running stoooooopidly rich and when flat out the mixture alters itself enough to run half okay, but still not enough to run correctly, but low down its flooding itself, i imagine its something silly like a sensor gone e.g lambda or map but id get about 80 miles to 20 quid of full on spirited driving in my R, so yeah thats not right! i love VTS' though they suprise so much! my pal had a 16v rallye and had EP3 owners saying they couldnt catch him, best thing was they reg checked to see what it was and being an S1 was brining up a 1.3 Great engines i love them!

    so an undeclared engine swap then?
15. mlawlan69 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo

    #15 21st February 2013, 20:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by James93 You say its sluggish from low RPMS then pulls like a train high up seems to me its running stoooooopidly rich and when flat out the mixture alters itself enough to run half okay, but still not enough to run correctly, but low down its flooding itself, i imagine its something silly like a sensor gone e.g lambda or map but id get about 80 miles to 20 quid of full on spirited driving in my R, so yeah thats not right! i love VTS' though they suprise so much! my pal had a 16v rallye and had EP3 owners saying they couldnt catch him, best thing was they reg checked to see what it was and being an S1 was brining up a 1.3 Great engines i love them!

    A decent civil answer, thank you.
    
    I bought a lambda sensor today at a cost of £79 but not fitted it yet as unreturnable if opened!! Expensive if its not going to cure it.
    
    And when I mean pulls, its a bit like a mild turbo effect, just nothing but it wants to keep on going after the limit, can feel it has more to give.
16. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #16 21st February 2013, 20:54

    Have you driven a 16v before? just out of interest
17. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

    #17 21st February 2013, 20:54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 A decent civil answer, thank you. I bought a lambda sensor today at a cost of £79 but not fitted it yet as unreturnable if opened!! Expensive if its not going to cure it. And when I mean pulls, its a bit like a mild turbo effect, just nothing but it wants to keep on going after the limit, can feel it has more to give.

    Has mark fitted vtec mate?
    
    What does the exhaust smell like?
18. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #18 21st February 2013, 21:01

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 A decent civil answer, thank you. I bought a lambda sensor today at a cost of £79 but not fitted it yet as unreturnable if opened!! Expensive if its not going to cure it. And when I mean pulls, its a bit like a mild turbo effect, just nothing but it wants to keep on going after the limit, can feel it has more to give.

    Ouch! I had a problem with Lambda getting stuck in my mani before i changed it over, so went breakers and found the one that looked the newest and paid £2 for it I know buying used parts is risky but for £2 id rather try doing that first! Solved the problem and was all A-okay
    
    16vs are very like that mate, they seem to have a VTEC effect theres not alot low down then when all them valves kick in, the thing goes! theres been a few times my 8v has sat along side 16v off the line, then they take off like a rocket, but with them MPGs doesnt sound right fella :/
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gandi699 so an undeclared engine swap then?

    Course not officer the car has since been crashed anyway and the engines in a VTR!
19. Tom5190 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2007 Someones Bumhole Posts: 5721 Mk2 16v Desire

    #19 21st February 2013, 21:28

    I'm getting around 320miles from a tank that's cammed & mapped matey. We didn't pull much fuel out of it when it was mapped tbh I got similar mpg
20. Pricklep Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5

    #20 21st February 2013, 21:35

    Mine pulls like a train after 4k... doesnt hang back. Before 4k its abit meh.
    
    Is mine cammed?trolol
21. MartinObviously Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge

    #21 21st February 2013, 21:35

    On mixed driving, standard GTI I get 31mpg.
    
    16V's don't really come alive until about 4500 onwards I've found.
    
    cammed would idle lumpy, but my standard runs lumpy because it's running rich.
    
    What you've said works out to about 14mpg...
    
    Even cams aren't that bad, in fact, driven normally turbo builds and ITB's can do better than that.
    
    Might I suggest a dodgy map sensor, sir.
22. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

    #22 21st February 2013, 21:48

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MartinObviously Might I suggest a dodgy map sensor, sir.

    This is what I think. I will never say a car is cammed without the visual proof. You still coming tomorrow mate so we can get you plugged in and get a nice idle of around 800rpm.
23. MartinObviously Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge

    #23 21st February 2013, 22:12

    My car idles at 895 :o
24. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

    #24 21st February 2013, 22:15

    Mine idles just over 600rpm smooth as a nut.
25. MartinObviously Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge

    #25 21st February 2013, 22:26

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bedford126 Mine idles just over 600rpm smooth as a nut.

    I can get my diesel to idle at 600 though
    
    rough as a Peugeot quality retaining nut.
26. Tom5190 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2007 Someones Bumhole Posts: 5721 Mk2 16v Desire

    #26 21st February 2013, 22:31

    Ffs mine idles at 1100rpm ha
27. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

    #27 21st February 2013, 22:31

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MartinObviously rough as a Peugeot quality retaining nut.

    Just spat my coke out mate.
28. Pricklep Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5

    #28 21st February 2013, 22:45

    I think mines 900 or something. Idles spot on. Rev needle drops as it should when the throttle isnt on.
29. mlawlan69 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo

    #29 21st February 2013, 22:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Prickle I think mines 900 or something. Idles spot on. Rev needle drops as it should when the throttle isnt on.

    Yes but we all know you own the perfect VTS
    
    Still coming down Marcus just send me a text when your thinking!!
    
    I hope its a simple sensor I really do!!
30. Bedford126 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH

    #30 21st February 2013, 22:54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 Yes but we all know you own the perfect VTS Still coming down Marcus just send me a text when your thinking!! I hope its a simple sensor I really do!!

    I'm almost certain it's a map sensor fault. If it is we can sort one out new from about £40. I really don't think its cammed though but we will see.
    
    And text me when your free. I can either pop to yours or you can pop around to my mums n we can sort it there.
31. Pricklep Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5

    #31 21st February 2013, 23:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 Yes but we all know you own the perfect VTS Still coming down Marcus just send me a text when your thinking!! I hope its a simple sensor I really do!!

    Lol? im just saying lol. perfect no decent for compared to most - yes.
    
    Last saxo idled abit shit tbh.
32. MartinObviously Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge

    #32 21st February 2013, 23:03

    Lies! my 16V runs the best!
    
    
33. mlawlan69 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo

    #33 22nd February 2013, 00:38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MartinObviously Lies! my 16V runs the best! GTI 106 - YouTube

    Running spot on in comparison to mine!!!
34. Cam Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2010 Kent Posts: 8439 Gen 7 Celica 190.

    #34 22nd February 2013, 00:45

    My S gets around 35mpg thats with Ss 4-2-1 ss decat centre and piper backbox, also a green air filter.
    Thats driving it like a fairy though 3k gear changes etc and i do 80% motorway miles for work.
    
    My old 16v furio witch was cammed did about 25 mpg did that on oil to aswell
35. MartinObviously Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge

    #35 22nd February 2013, 00:51

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 Running spot on in comparison to mine!!!

    that's uhh, not very good then
    
    I'm in need of a new ECU I think.