whats the difference between a organic Clutch and 4/6 paddle Clutch

28th March 2013, 18:50

As the title reads, "whats the difference between a organic or paddle Clutch"?

I am going soon to have a GMC supercharger kit fitted to my VTS, so I am looking for a decent clutch, now I have been looking at a 4 paddle and Organic clutch. Now I'm not kinda sure which to go for, as I'm not 100% clear on there differences/pros and cons etc?

My engine spec is;

1) vts engine (45k)
2) catcams 708
3) raceland 4-2-1 manifold
4) magnex exhaust and de-cat
5) wossner low comp pistons (not fitted yet)
5) gmc supercharger kit (not fitted yet)

Not sure what power itll make with my engine spec? I do want a clutch that's feels as close to standard as possible (as i live in a busy area, and wont ever be doing trackdays etc).

Any help/comments appreciated

28th March 2013, 20:53

You will want a sprung clutch for everyday driving so its more driveable. The more paddles, the more torque it will take. I don't find them much different to standard clutches on the bite tbf. Its the stronger clamp plate that makes it heavy. CG 5 plate uprated paddle clutch is a good entry level, give them a call and see what it will take.

You might want to reconsider using the 708 exhaust cam with a supercharger. Maybe just use a standard exhaust cam to reduce the overlap.

28th March 2013, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by e8_pqck

You will want a sprung clutch for everyday driving so its more driveable. The more paddles, the more torque it will take. I don't find them much different to standard clutches on the bite tbf. Its the stronger clamp plate that makes it heavy. CG 5 plate uprated paddle clutch is a good entry level, give them a call and see what it will take.

You might want to reconsider using the 708 exhaust cam with a supercharger. Maybe just use a standard exhaust cam to reduce the overlap.

1) I plan on using standard cams and sell the 708s.
2) you got a contact number for guys you recommended?
3) do you know how these compare to a Helix? I've heard Helix are pretty good, but not sure how they compare (from a performance and price point of view).

29th March 2013, 07:07

Well i'm using a helix 6 paddle in mine because it's about the biggest you can go without using a twin plate, i also got it second hand and got CG to replate it. Others may know of other clutches available, maybe AP do something else.

CG are in Leeds, you can google them easy enough. Mine originally had a 4 plate CG in it which could handle half a bar easy, but I didnt know what was in the car at the time and the helix came along cheap so i bought that and had it replated. When we changed it out the CG was already in - if i'd had known I would have enquired as to what it could take as it was a good clutch and i rate the guys down there. If buying new it's a good place to enquire as they will put you right, they sell more than just their own.

The old catcam turbo cams use the 708 as the inlet, it's only the exhaust cam that's different. a lot of people use a 708 as the inlet and a standard exhaust cam. The 708 has a high lift and a relatively short duration which is what you want for a turbo car, excessive overlap may cause blow through which I think is what i got with the pugsport cams which were in mine to start with.

29th March 2013, 08:34

not being pedantic ,but there is very little difference in torque rating bewteen a 4 + 6 paddle ,as the clamping force of the cover decides torque capacity ,what a 6 paddle does is last 50% longer and aslo runs cooler as the load is spread out over more fiction surfaces .
If you were right on the limit of the covers calmping force there may a very slight increase in capacity .but the main difference is life .
so if you intended to do road use and drag racing the 6 paddle last half as long again as a 4 paddle unit
the question that you should be asking is the real differece between organic + ceromettalic plates
an organic plate is lot smoother to use ,but when getting near the limit it heats up and looses clamping .
there is a slight difference in clamping between the 2 types ,but just fitting a paddle plate to a std cover will not lift its capcity by a great amount . the cover for a paddle plate clutch is made from different type of steel as well spring pressure being different
a cermettalic does the opposite --get it hot and it grips better ,also oil contamination which is death for an organic does not bother a paddle plate --it just burns it off and then works like it should
the other point to note is your flywheel MUST be flat + no blue spots when changing to a ceromettalic plate
It is not flexible so will not conform to any tapered or grooved surface like an organic will .
when i hear of clutch judder you can bet that its due to the flywheel and /or cover being not flat or has "blue" high spots in its face which should have been machined out before change to a paddle plate system

29th March 2013, 08:56

Also alot of people have seen Good results running 708's with rotrex supercharger Kits......

29th March 2013, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazza808

Also alot of people have seen Good results running 708's with rotrex supercharger Kits......

A few people have mentioned there's no point having both though? (im not too sure though, no experience of both)

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

not being pedantic ,but there is very little difference in torque rating bewteen a 4 + 6 paddle ,as the clamping force of the cover decides torque capacity ,what a 6 paddle does is last 50% longer and aslo runs cooler as the load is spread out over more fiction surfaces .
If you were right on the limit of the covers calmping force there may a very slight increase in capacity .but the main difference is life .
so if you intended to do road use and drag racing the 6 paddle last half as long again as a 4 paddle unit
the question that you should be asking is the real differece between organic + ceromettalic plates
an organic plate is lot smoother to use ,but when getting near the limit it heats up and looses clamping .
there is a slight difference in clamping between the 2 types ,but just fitting a paddle plate to a std cover will not lift its capcity by a great amount . the cover for a paddle plate clutch is made from different type of steel as well spring pressure being different
a cermettalic does the opposite --get it hot and it grips better ,also oil contamination which is death for an organic does not bother a paddle plate --it just burns it off and then works like it should
the other point to note is your flywheel MUST be flat + no blue spots when changing to a ceromettalic plate
It is not flexible so will not conform to any tapered or grooved surface like an organic will .
when i hear of clutch judder you can bet that its due to the flywheel and /or cover being not flat or has "blue" high spots in its face which should have been machined out before change to a paddle plate system

couple questions for you John;

1) what sort of rough power do you think i'll make when my setup comes together (spec in first post)?

2) what clutch would be best suited if I'm looking at about 180-200 bhp and then also 200-250 bhp? i only want what i need (not going overboard), not gunna be doing much more to the engine after this.

basically whats the limit of the organic, 4 paddle and 6 paddle?

29th March 2013, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by huggy54

A few people have mentioned there's no point having both though? (im not too sure though, no experience of both)

couple questions for you John;

1) what sort of rough power do you think i'll make when my setup comes together (spec in first post)?

2) what clutch would be best suited if I'm looking at about 180-200 bhp and then also 200-250 bhp? i only want what i need (not going overboard), not gunna be doing much more to the engine after this.

basically whats the limit of the organic, 4 paddle and 6 paddle?

Nearly everyone saying about only use one are on turbo setups,

John will be best to advise, but from what I've seen of rotrex j4 setups, most of the bigger powered ones are running both 708 cams.

29th March 2013, 15:48

firstly are these power @wheels or @ flywheel --
I see no point in fiitng a cltuch that is on the limit at 200 as you are saying you are going to let it have full boost later and then the organic will be way over its limit
sprung centre paddle plate is the way ,the dif in price of 4 =6 paddle is only about 330 --so to have 50% more life you choose.it all depnds on how are going to use the car as well -if do any sort of drag racing --then paddle is the way .
as for cams sexy gt is running std cams in his ,but there is no dobut that the 708,s will give more power
supercharging is like n/a tuning to a point -so you can run wilder cams and get the benifit ,most turbo men are lookng for alot of power at lower rpms ,thats why they do not run wilder cams ,and of course the dulnes at lower rpms would be even more pronounced with higher lift cams .
I have an irish rally man running c2 + my ulitmate road cams(similar to708)+ s/c and making 260@wheels at 6300rpm --but he wanted it that way to mimic a turbo type car --not sure he still thinks that as he is now fitting traction control due to not being able to get the power down at the lower rpms as they have moved him from the clubmans boosted class to the anything oes class and thats got lots of rear wheel drive mega money cars in it ,so his fwd only is now a problem

29th March 2013, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

firstly are these power @wheels or @ flywheel --

At the wheels

31st March 2013, 12:08

6 paddle is the most sensible choice --fit = forget -spend money once only