ARB upgrade or lower strut brace?

  1. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2012 123 happy land, worcestershire/surrey Posts: 798 saxo vtr 2002
    #1
    i heard that both of these are important to prevent body roll and all the jazz. if you were to get one, which one?

    i currently have neither so need your opinions!
  2. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2010 Kent Posts: 8439 Gen 7 Celica 190.
    #2
    Lower strut brace.
  3. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2009 ringwood Posts: 6305 suzuki swift 1.2 sz3
    #3
    How is a lower brace going to stop body roll? It'll stiffen things up. You need stiffer springs, or a thicker anti roll bar.
  4. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #4
    Is there an OEM front arb thats thicker, or is it a case of custom fabrication? I'm only aware of the rear arbs that can be swapped about through different models and custom upgrades from motorsports companies.
    The lower wishbone brace is a good cheap and cheerful mod, but ground clearance can be a problem. Upper one doesnt do very much at all truth be told but can be had cheap enough
  5. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2012 N.Yorkshire Posts: 115 '00 black Saxo VTR '00 Posi blue Furio
    #5
    106 GTi ARBs are 24mm front and rear instead of the 22mm ones that Citroen fitted to Saxos from Furio to VTS.
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  6. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2012 123 happy land, worcestershire/surrey Posts: 798 saxo vtr 2002
    #6
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TomiX View Post
    106 GTi ARBs are 24mm front and rear instead of the 22mm ones that Citroen fitted to Saxos from Furio to VTS.
    so if i can get my hands on one, i'll assume a straight swap with new bushes is in order?
  7. West Midlands Joined: Nov 2005 Nuneaton (West Mids) Posts: 13835 '64 Volvo V40 R’Design, '89 Ph1 309 GTi, ‘97 Mk1 S
    #7
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TomiX View Post
    106 GTi ARBs are 24mm front and rear instead of the 22mm ones that Citroen fitted to Saxos from Furio to VTS.
    Not quite correct,

    GTi fronts are 22mm the same as the VTS. There's no thicker front ARB than that from the manufacturer. I'm not aware of any readily available aftermarket front ARB either.

    For the rear yes the later GTi's were fitted with a 24mm rear ARB rather than the 22mm used for the VTS. 24mm ones were also found on the S2 Rallye's. I've lowered a hell of a lot of Saxo/106's and have found that some of the earlier 106 GTi's have only had the 22mm rear fitted, many if these which id worked on were standard and original too so would have no suspicion that a replacement lower spec one would have been fitted.

    24mm rear ARB's can be bought from peugeot still for around £100 is memory serves me right, prices may have risen slightly since I ordered mine a few years ago.

    There is a company in Leicestershire that can make thicker rear ARB's if you wished, price was about £125 from them. They don't make thicker fronts due to the complex nature of the bends in the upper spec Saxo/106
  8. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2012 N.Yorkshire Posts: 115 '00 black Saxo VTR '00 Posi blue Furio
    #8
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ns9900 View Post
    so if i can get my hands on one, i'll assume a straight swap with new bushes is in order?
    Correct but, most people fit a heavier rear one to improve turn in. Just fitting a front one will increase understeer.
    The lower brace will tighten things up a bit but, if you really want to improve handling, you're looking at stiffer lower front springs, sports dampers and better suspension bushes. About which there are numerous threads in this section.
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  9. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Pompey/Darlo Posts: 31546 MK1 - 1.1 Animal
    #9
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wadoryu View Post
    How is a lower brace going to stop body roll? It'll stiffen things up. You need stiffer springs, or a thicker anti roll bar.
    He says body roll and all that jazz. A lower brace will help all that jazz
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  10. Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2012 N.Yorkshire Posts: 115 '00 black Saxo VTR '00 Posi blue Furio
    #10
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by willsy View Post
    Not quite correct,

    GTi fronts are 22mm the same as the VTS. There's no thicker front ARB than that from the manufacturer. I'm not aware of any readily available aftermarket front ARB either.
    Thanks for that. Seems odd that they would fit different sizes front and rear when Citroen matched theirs. Was the standard GTi twitchier than the VTS?
  11. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #11
    A little twichier but not hugely
    Just turns in and swaps direction nicer

    Seriously on roll and feeling unstable id uprate the bushes on the front wishbones
    Holding the cars geometry is more important than loading up things with harder arbs or springs

    Lower brace on stock bushes is stupid
    The bush will flex before the chassis is loaded enough to notice a strut brace helping its just a placebo effect on softer bushes

    At least the softer purple powerflexs are needed to feel a difference from all the different setups ive had
  12. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2011 Doncaster Posts: 174 Citroën Saxo Vtr
    #12
    im ordering some of these powerflex arb bushes along with bottom arm bushes, they anygood?
  13. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #13
    whats the verdict on the flo flex orange wishbone bushes? or the yellow MLR ones?
  14. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #14
    Flo flex arent bad but seen a few sets sent out that dont fit so be aware before fitting and check allways got sorted easy enough and not bad tbh
  15. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #15
    Might get a set of them then, £10 less than the powerflexes and I've read the orange compound is tougher than powerflex purple
  16. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2011 Doncaster Posts: 174 Citroën Saxo Vtr
    #16
    which is best? Cost no object..
  17. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #17
    do powerflex do a black version of these?
  18. Frequent Poster Joined: May 2010 ipswich Posts: 961 track saxo Daily beemer
    #18
    I have a flo-flex set and have no complaints definetly made a difference after i fiited them! Reccomended
  19. Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2011 Doncaster Posts: 174 Citroën Saxo Vtr
    #19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ryza View Post
    I have a flo-flex set and have no complaints definetly made a difference after i fiited them! Reccomended
    Good Quality? how many miles you done with them on?
  20. Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2012 123 happy land, worcestershire/surrey Posts: 798 saxo vtr 2002
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TomiX View Post
    Correct but, most people fit a heavier rear one to improve turn in. Just fitting a front one will increase understeer.
    The lower brace will tighten things up a bit but, if you really want to improve handling, you're looking at stiffer lower front springs, sports dampers and better suspension bushes. About which there are numerous threads in this section.
    im getting b8 all round with 35 mm koni, opinions?
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  21. Infrequent Poster Joined: Feb 2005 Frankfurt-Germany Posts: 203 Saxo VTS 1.6 16V
    #21
    Hi I build myself a copy of the Sparco, I also have an upper strut brace, Bilstein grp N shocks with purple Powerflex and Spoox bushings, on the rear 22mm ARB and std 19mm torsion bars.


    Since I installed the lower brace, I am sure the back steers more in following to the more agressive front turn in.

    I noticed this today on fast driven curves, were direction is changing quickly, I do not mean oversteering.

    Do you guys think my theory is correct?

    Just want to know if this is normal?

    I have to add, I drive a lot of toe-in / \ 0°16' per side so 0°32' on the hole front.


    Greetz Robert