Hard to push into 1st gear - SOLVED

1. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

   #1 22nd March 2014, 17:58

   Right i have a problem - basically i have a 106 gti conversion and it takes alot of force to push the gear lever into 1st gear. However, 2nd/3rd/4th/5th and reverse slide into gear lovely.
   
   Its quite abit easier when the engine isnt running. i just push the clutch down and it goes in alright (ish.) alot better than when its running.
   
   i have a couple of suspected parts
   
   - after market gear linkages (no idea what make they look like kam-racing ones though) but wouldn't it make all the gears stiff not just 1st?.
   
   - it looks like to me the gear lever has been cut down with a hack saw. maybe the gear lever is to short?? which maybe why im struggling to push it in 1st.
   
   - clutch cable/clutch. this has had a new clutch 1000 miles ago receipt to prove etc. but the clutch cable is one of those wind things that's bolted to the bulk head in the engine bay. the clutch does have quite a high bite point.
   
   No noises from the box no bangs or whines. And as said goes into the rest of the gears faultless.
2. Mickswan Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Apr 2013 Jarrow Posts: 4022 2003 Icelandic Grey 16v VTR 1991 Daihatsu GTti

   #2 22nd March 2014, 18:11

   I'd say get the clutch re adjusted as a high bite point isn't good. Also a shortened gear leaver won't give you as much leverage when pushing it in gear.
3. user_66909 Infrequent Poster Joined: Feb 2014 malton Posts: 115 y reg saxo vtr

   #3 22nd March 2014, 22:03

   im sure all the gears have separate gear linkages, mines the same and i need to replace the top one, which im doing tomoz, but its just pop on pop off job..
4. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

   #4 23rd March 2014, 15:53

   SOLVED
   
   So i did a good search and a lot of info came up about this.
   
   Basically i have been trying to change into first to early when coming to a slow, i read the vts/gti boxes don't like going into first gear if your going to quick - someone said it was a counter-measure to stop you mashing the box up.
   
   Also if you car goes into 1st easy when your stationary - its usually the above. Your changing down to 1st to early i.e going to fast.
   
   Anyway i thought i would give it a try - yup it works! goes into first perfectly. When you think of it, you don't really need 1st gear accept pulling away, or crawling in traffic, so why choose to slow down in first??, when i should be in second until im almost at a complete stop...then i can change to first. You can pull off in second pretty east to, although i have only tried this as an experiment. i guess its down to how close ratio the gti/vts boxes are - compared to other cars.
   
   i can change down to 1st a lot earlier in my 206 so i guess from driving that,then to the 106 i have to adapt to the car.
   
   EDIT - in bold is wrong as i have learnt. my below comment is the correct way to slow a car down to a complete stop/walking speed etc.
5. monka Established Member Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 1368

   #5 23rd March 2014, 17:04

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by stevo1600 SOLVED So i did a good search and a lot of info came up about this. Basically i have been trying to change into first to early when coming to a slow, i read the vts/gti boxes don't like going into first gear if your going to quick - someone said it was a counter-measure to stop you mashing the box up. Also if you car goes into 1st easy when your stationary - its usually the above. Your changing down to 1st to early i.e going to fast. Anyway i thought i would give it a try - yup it works! goes into first perfectly. When you think of it, you don't really need 1st gear accept pulling away, or crawling in traffic, so why choose to slow down in first??, when i should be in second until im almost at a complete stop...then i can change to first. You can pull off in second pretty east to, although i have only tried this as an experiment. i guess its down to how close ratio the gti/vts boxes are - compared to other cars. i can change down to 1st a lot earlier in my 206 so i guess from driving that,then to the 106 i have to adapt to the car.

   dont you get told all of that when your learning to drive? know i did.
6. aldred309uk Frequent Poster Joined: Feb 2014 Blackburn, Lancashire Posts: 596 2002 Citroen Saxo desire 2001 Volvo V40 1.9D

   #6 23rd March 2014, 17:19

   Just put a slight amount of pressure to first as you're coming to a stop and it will fall in when you hit the right speed!
7. user_66211 Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2013 Rugby Posts: 170 1.1 Saxo Desire

   #7 23rd March 2014, 17:50

   Ive noticed that also, the saxo doesnt like going into 1st until youre at walking speed
8. Manu Saxperience Addict Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 11714 A6 Le Mans tuned/A3 TFSI tuned

   #8 24th March 2014, 08:35

   learn to drive instead of race.

   1 user thanked this post: chompy
9. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

   #9 24th March 2014, 11:15

   Ofcourse. But these boxes dont like going into first gear to early, you have to be going very slow, much slower than that of other cars. Learn to drive is a stupid comment.
   
   I suspected this to be a fault, it is not. Just the characteristics of the gearbox.
10. Jizanthapus Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 3593

    #10 24th March 2014, 11:20

    How fast were you going when you tired to select 1st?! Like 50mph or something?
    Can't say Ive ever had this problem.
11. Manu Saxperience Addict Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 11714 A6 Le Mans tuned/A3 TFSI tuned

    #11 24th March 2014, 11:34

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevo1600 Ofcourse. But these boxes dont like going into first gear to early, you have to be going very slow, much slower than that of other cars. Learn to drive is a stupid comment.

    yeah well I'll keep on being stupid and you can keep on crunching your box and synchromesh
    
    first gear has a very low ratio which is used to launch the vehicle from stationary, and should not be used for downshifting. Since you assumed it was a fault then you don't know how to drive and need to relearn how to shift gears, period.

    2 users thanked this post: chompy, Jizanthapus
12. L33h Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2007 North-east - Washington Posts: 7311 Clio 182, Fireblade GSX-R 750

    #12 24th March 2014, 11:55

    Well that was a bit stupid haha
13. Manu Saxperience Addict Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 11714 A6 Le Mans tuned/A3 TFSI tuned

    #13 24th March 2014, 12:29

    Also, and I'll assume you don't know that either. When stationary, at red lights or whenever else, get in neutral and foot off the clutch instead of keeping in first. When slowing down, always stick to 2nd gear into neutral and use your brakes instead of using first gear to slow the car down. That's how you drive manual and that's how you do to preserve your box and clutch. You're welcome.
14. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

    #14 24th March 2014, 18:44

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Muel How fast were you going when you tired to select 1st?! Like 50mph or something? Can't say Ive ever had this problem.

    less than 10 mph. Any higher and it will not go into first at all. I never had it in my vts, or vtr. This is the first time i have ever seen it.
    
    Again no whines or anything from the box at all, and its never crunched into gear. it physically wont go in above 10mph. where as other cars i have driven will. I have never come across this before, which is why i thought my gearbox was faulty.
    
    This has nothing to do with "learning to drive/relearning manual driving" i drive for a living. Its the fact that these particular boxes must have a fail safe mechanism to stop you from causing damage to the box. Which again, i have never seen in my driving experience. I would say every gearbox has one, but due to the closeness of the ratios, this one is a lot more noticeable than others.
15. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

    #15 24th March 2014, 18:59

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Manu Also, and I'll assume you don't know that either. When stationary, at red lights or whenever else, get in neutral and foot off the clutch instead of keeping in first. When slowing down, always stick to 2nd gear into neutral and use your brakes instead of using first gear to slow the car down. That's how you drive manual and that's how you do to preserve your box and clutch. You're welcome.

    You are wrong.
    
    Down shifting into 1st gear is essential when slowing down to a walking speed or a complete stop, junction turning or approaching slow moving traffic, under no circumstances should you be coasting when slowing down/speeding up (going down a hill) such as,
    
    going from 2nd to neutral and using your brakes to slow you down. you SHOULD down shift to 1st gear and apply the brakes when you are going slow enough.
    
    I thought the same as you did as i mention in my other post, but i am also wrong.
    
    Your welcome.
16. Manu Saxperience Addict Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 11714 A6 Le Mans tuned/A3 TFSI tuned

    #16 25th March 2014, 01:05

    lol
    
    You're welcome.
17. L33h Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2007 North-east - Washington Posts: 7311 Clio 182, Fireblade GSX-R 750

    #17 25th March 2014, 07:53

    I never use 1st to engine brake lol itll destroy yoir box its a crawler gear. You shouldnt really need to engine brake unless youre thrashing it anyway lol