BE Ratios, for boost

1. ashturnerc2gt Newbie Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 4

   #1 23rd October 2014, 09:08

   Morning everyone,
   I'm in the process of building a turbo citroen c2, aim is 300bhp so it's going to have fully forged engine and turbo setup from GR performance who have built my itb'd engine that I currently have.
   
   
   For reliability I'm converting to a be gearbox, I've already bought a satchshift for the be box and a be typo quaife lsd. Obviously I'll be using the 1.6 8v picasso casing but what gear ratios do you recommend?
   Just looking for advice as there are a lot more turbo Saxos/106s than c2's.
   I've read a lot that 205 gti gears are used but some using 1.6 and others using 1.9 so I'm unsure. Any help would be great
2. user_4681 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2004 Grimsby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 5489 SUPERCHARGED saxo vts

   #2 23rd October 2014, 10:31

   1.6 and 1.9 same fd
   
   345 grear same
   
   1,2 shorter on the 1.9
   
   Loose that diff and buy a plate!
3. welshpug Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.

   #3 23rd October 2014, 12:32

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by sexy_gt 1.6 and 1.9 same fd 345 grear same 1,2 shorter on the 1.9 Loose that diff and buy a plate!

   
   nope, 1.9 is longer, 3.69 vs 4.06
   
   1st 2nd and 5th shorter in a 1.6 box.
4. ashturnerc2gt Newbie Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 4

   #4 23rd October 2014, 20:35

   Thanks for that, leaning towards the 1.9 ratios then.
   I know 300bhp will be pretty lively and a plate diff would handle it better but I still want to drive it on the road so don't want a plate diff clunking at low speeds etc.
   
   Now just need to decide what clutch, a helix 6 paddle is ok for 300ish bhp I believe but tempted to go for a twin plate lug drive incase I chase more power in the future
5. ashturnerc2gt Newbie Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 4

   #5 23rd October 2014, 20:36

   Turbo wise I've been advised a td04 turbo rebuilt with billet wheel, unless anyone has a better alternative?
   I'm after something that will make good power but spool well too
6. sje00 Infrequent Poster Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 136 Peugeot 106 Rallye Turbo 385bhp

   #6 24th October 2014, 03:57

   1.9 205 Gti has longer 1st and 2nd.
   
   Helix 6 paddle will be fine for up to 350lb/ft torque. More than good enough for your set up.
   
   GT2860RS, awesome turbo.
7. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

   #7 24th October 2014, 08:13

   think you are going about it wrong way
   what top speed you want ? when you know that
   work out your tyre size etc --and get a ratio calculation prog of the net and work out which gear set you need
   6 paddle plate +pressed steel cover will not transmit a REAL 300 bhp --only good for around 230tops
   how ever you may have so much wheelspin that the clutch will never see the full power the engine makes
   using be box you would be better to go to single plate 200 mm lug drive which with your hydraulic clutch on c2 will feel very nice to use --but it is more expensive -slightly dearer than twin plate --but much better choice
   twin plate are not nice for anything but out +out racing
   
   the man who post 350lbs ft for 6 paddle --is just showing how little he knows about clutchs--its the pressure plate that decides torque capacity not the plate --that amount of torque would equate to 466bhp at 7000rpm
   350lbsft @6500rpm=433.33
   there is no pressed steel cover that can hold 350lbs ft of torque--this is why i highlighted REAL bhp --lots of storeis about power any saying 300bhp =pressedsteel cover just shows power is not REAL
   believe who you like --or you could just do the maths and speak to helix who make the clutchs and they will tell you who is correct
8. sje00 Infrequent Poster Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 136 Peugeot 106 Rallye Turbo 385bhp

   #8 24th October 2014, 12:26

   I ran a helix 6 paddle and cover with 380bhp & 345lb/ft with no slip ever.
9. tyler1400 Frequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Blackburn Posts: 595 Citroen Saxo VTS

   #9 24th October 2014, 18:09

   What is the price of each clutch?
10. ashturnerc2gt Newbie Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 4

    #10 26th October 2014, 18:28

    How much is a gt2860rs?
    And what's the cost of each clutch? Is there any need for a billet fly or can the cash be spent elsewhere?
    It's definitely not a budget build but I want to spend wisely but buy quality
11. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

    #11 27th October 2014, 08:16

    ring me to discuss
    01671404030.
12. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

    #12 27th October 2014, 08:23

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sje00 I ran a helix 6 paddle and cover with 380bhp & 345lb/ft with no slip ever.

    you must have a very highly tuned dyno --that can be only explanation --
    or your power run took around 5secs or less --which means the bhp figure you got was just a spike
    not REAL power when the dyno had selttted down and any inertia spikes settled
    
    should take in excess of 10secs --to do proper dyno run and power should be steady for at least 3secs before hitting log button .
    no way your clutch could handle over50%more than helix state--they would list it as such if it could !!!!
13. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #13 27th October 2014, 08:41

    In other news, a plate diff is fine on the road when setup correctly. They aren't a fit and forget part like an ATB but with the BE box it's only 20 minutes to get it out to service every so often