3 ways vs. satchell conversion

1. deano_123 Established Member Joined: Nov 2011 Newcastle Posts: 1698 Range Rover Sport

   #1 24th November 2014, 15:44

   Pretty much the last part of my car I havent done yet is the suspension, mainly as I dont understand this evil dark art. The car is fully bushed, uprated mounts etc it is just the suspension that sucks (I think its on Avo's or something).
   
   Anyway, so would I be better going for some 2/ 3 way AST/ KW etc coilovers or the satchell conversion kit? Prices work out about the same so any thoughts?
2. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #2 24th November 2014, 15:45

   They do two different things. Start with the Satchell kit first then upgrade the dampers when funds allow.
3. deano_123 Established Member Joined: Nov 2011 Newcastle Posts: 1698 Range Rover Sport

   #3 24th November 2014, 17:08

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by KamRacing They do two different things. Start with the Satchell kit first then upgrade the dampers when funds allow.

   Tell me more, my lack of suspension knowledge is hugely evident here
4. welshpug Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.

   #4 24th November 2014, 17:30

   Satchell kit replaces the original uprights, wishbones, hubs, adds upper and lower braces, as well as strut tower stiffening, strut top plates and top mounts.
   
   They are designed for a 40mm inverted insert, typically a Bilstein unit is used, however AST, AVO etc can make an insert which will work, a Widetracked Saxo Rally car I service for has Proflex 3 way inserts with remote reservoirs.
   
   Colin himself just uses the bilstein inserts on the 205, as does Dean gammon on his 1700 hillclimb 106.
   
   
   the satchell kit aims to correct the poor geometry and behaviour a modified 106/saxo has as standard, reducing bump steer and adding lots of much needed wheel travel, as well as being a LOT stronger, using larger wheel bearings and stiffer hub carriers as well (they use 307 units)
5. MuZiZZle Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2011 Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 7779 Phase 2 VTS , E61 M5

   #5 24th November 2014, 19:03

   Your drive is tarmac?, any camber on it?
6. deano_123 Established Member Joined: Nov 2011 Newcastle Posts: 1698 Range Rover Sport

   #6 25th November 2014, 13:53

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by KamRacing They do two different things. Start with the Satchell kit first then upgrade the dampers when funds allow.

   Would I not be better off going with a set of AST 2/ 3 ways and see how I get on with them?
   
   I dont know a great deal about the satchel setup, I've read only positives about the rear setup but havent found any feedback on the front setup.
7. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #7 25th November 2014, 15:16

   Whats the car being used for?
8. D4MJT Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2009 Morpeth Posts: 2539 BMW 116d Regional Toner Sales Edition

   #8 25th November 2014, 15:44

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by KamRacing Whats the car being used for?

   Used?
   
   Errrr
9. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #9 25th November 2014, 16:12

   rephrase....whats the cars intended use? lol
10. deano_123 Established Member Joined: Nov 2011 Newcastle Posts: 1698 Range Rover Sport

    #10 25th November 2014, 16:31

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KamRacing rephrase....whats the cars intended use? lol

    The cheek of these folk.
    
    Its built to go on track, its a pretty serious build not a stripped out saxo with a show cage. The only part I havent put any effort into is the suspension as I really dont understand that side of it all
11. welshpug Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.

    #11 25th November 2014, 16:58

    that's why people pay guys like Colin to do it for us
12. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #12 25th November 2014, 17:46

    Colin has revised all the geometry. Its taking the suspension on the car to the next level. It will cope much better with what you throw at it. On track I would say it will be more planted when riding the curbs or with camber changes. On the rear the greater damper movement gives a more precise handling trait.
    
    Your 2 and 3 way suspension gives more specific damper control. You can control weight transfer under acceleration and braking and play with the bump and rebound independently but having the best suspension around it as a basis is probably the most important change you can do.
13. user_32315 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo

    #13 25th November 2014, 18:51

    is there a website with all the satchell products on?
14. deano_123 Established Member Joined: Nov 2011 Newcastle Posts: 1698 Range Rover Sport

    #14 26th November 2014, 06:05

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KamRacing Colin has revised all the geometry. Its taking the suspension on the car to the next level. It will cope much better with what you throw at it. On track I would say it will be more planted when riding the curbs or with camber changes. On the rear the greater damper movement gives a more precise handling trait. Your 2 and 3 way suspension gives more specific damper control. You can control weight transfer under acceleration and braking and play with the bump and rebound independently but having the best suspension around it as a basis is probably the most important change you can do.

    Will a coilover setup that uses the original pickup points work with the satchell re-engineered setup or does that require a whole new coilover setup? I dont want to have to buy twice but I'm thinking it would be best to start with the original points to get used to the car then go onto the Satchell stuff
15. D4MJT Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2009 Morpeth Posts: 2539 BMW 116d Regional Toner Sales Edition

    #15 26th November 2014, 07:40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by deano_123 Will a coilover setup that uses the original pickup points work with the satchell re-engineered setup or does that require a whole new coilover setup? I dont want to have to buy twice but I'm thinking it would be best to start with the original points to get used to the car then go onto the Satchell stuff

    In all honesty Dean, I'd just get the Satchell stuff fitted, you're doing a proper job with the rest of the car, and it's the best kit out there by a country mile.
    
    Besides, it'll make the shell more desirable to me when you split it and break next year
16. deano_123 Established Member Joined: Nov 2011 Newcastle Posts: 1698 Range Rover Sport

    #16 26th November 2014, 08:29

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by D4MJT In all honesty Dean, I'd just get the Satchell stuff fitted, you're doing a proper job with the rest of the car, and it's the best kit out there by a country mile. Besides, it'll make the shell more desirable to me when you split it and break next year

    In the back of my head I want to get a shell and take it back to the metal, T45 weld in, seam welded etc but I dont want to do it to this car as I've had it nearly 3 years and only drove it once, I want to get this one finished and enjoy it next year whilst having another shell properly done.
    
    
17. D4MJT Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2009 Morpeth Posts: 2539 BMW 116d Regional Toner Sales Edition

    #17 26th November 2014, 09:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by deano_123 In the back of my head I want to get a shell and take it back to the metal, T45 weld in, seam welded etc but I dont want to do it to this car as I've had it nearly 3 years and only drove it once, I want to get this one finished and enjoy it next year whilst having another shell properly done.

    Get an S1 Rallye, they're the bestest.
    
    Or an Onyx Black S1 XN if you can find one, I hear in non-sunroof guise they're the hidden gem in the crown of the 106 world.
18. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #18 26th November 2014, 11:37

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jeffchiz is there a website with all the satchell products on?

    no - i have some products but I've not got round to getting the more complicated stuff on. Mainly because they require someone with the right knowhow to fit.
    
    Kev
19. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #19 26th November 2014, 11:39

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by deano_123 Will a coilover setup that uses the original pickup points work with the satchell re-engineered setup or does that require a whole new coilover setup? I dont want to have to buy twice but I'm thinking it would be best to start with the original points to get used to the car then go onto the Satchell stuff

    Its a complete replacement suspension kit. Fronts and rears are completely different. If you want to do it once then save up for the kit and get a set of dampers that can be converted to 2 or 3 way at a later date.
    
    I can help you with that should you go that route as we can supply the whole package.
20. welshpug Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.

    #20 26th November 2014, 12:08

    website is on the way and they have a Facebook page
21. deano_123 Established Member Joined: Nov 2011 Newcastle Posts: 1698 Range Rover Sport

    #21 26th November 2014, 12:21

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KamRacing Its a complete replacement suspension kit. Fronts and rears are completely different. If you want to do it once then save up for the kit and get a set of dampers that can be converted to 2 or 3 way at a later date. I can help you with that should you go that route as we can supply the whole package.

    Can you give me some more info on it and what you feel would be the best option to go for spring and damper wise in conjunction with the satchell setup.
22. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #22 26th November 2014, 14:11

    Its going to get complicated working out an individual setup. Drop me a PM or drop me an email. It all gets rather fun but we can certainly build an up-gradable setup. Its not cheap but it will be a seriously quick, outhandling most vehicles..
23. deano_123 Established Member Joined: Nov 2011 Newcastle Posts: 1698 Range Rover Sport

    #23 26th November 2014, 14:45

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KamRacing Its going to get complicated working out an individual setup. Drop me a PM or drop me an email. It all gets rather fun but we can certainly build an up-gradable setup. Its not cheap but it will be a seriously quick, outhandling most vehicles..

    Let me know your email as it will be easier to keep up than PM'ing on here.