Stalling/cutting out again.....

20th February 2015, 08:35

Car started stalling/cutting out again... Thing is it's fine until I do a short journey, E.g. had to go drs before going work this morning, short journey, got there, parked up turned it off, come back out after 20 seconds and try to start up thats when the cutting out happens/drops below 1k.

The ABS light came on as well this morning... Again after turning off..

Dunno if these could possibly be related.

Before I change the MAP sensor and ICV, any FURTHER suggestions as to what this could be? As is not something that's gone away. Gasket was changed, sparks done service recently done flushed thermo changed etc.

Beginning to worry/wonder if it's something bigger. Once it's stalled, i have to turn it on again 3 - 6 times before it will run normally again. So it stalls, try start it up it stalls again (turns over ok but just drops under 1k and stalls straight away.) then have to turn it on 4 + more times before it will run smoothly and nicely again.

Any other suggestions as to what it could be greatly welcomed.

20th February 2015, 08:53

Basically it's when I turn engine off then turn it back on within a certain period of time (not very long) that it plays up and wants to stall. Almost like it becomes a different car... Which obviously isn't convenient considering they're short runners anyway. Makes short trips to the shops etc a complete nightmare really...

20th February 2015, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel

Car started stalling/cutting out again... Thing is it's fine until I do a short journey, E.g. had to go drs before going work this morning, short journey, got there, parked up turned it off, come back out after 20 seconds and try to start up thats when the cutting out happens/drops below 1k.

The ABS light came on as well this morning... Again after turning off..

Dunno if these could possibly be related.

Before I change the MAP sensor and ICV, any FURTHER suggestions as to what this could be? As is not something that's gone away. Gasket was changed, sparks done service recently done flushed thermo changed etc.

Beginning to worry/wonder if it's something bigger. Once it's stalled, i have to turn it on again 3 - 6 times before it will run normally again. So it stalls, try start it up it stalls again (turns over ok but just drops under 1k and stalls straight away.) then have to turn it on 4 + more times before it will run smoothly and nicely again.

Any other suggestions as to what it could be greatly welcomed.

20th February 2015, 12:11

O2 sensor

20th February 2015, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coops200691

O2 sensor

I think people have now advised every sensor to me haha, despise how many sensors there are in a car

Guess ill start with map/icv and see how it goes, then if still issues ill try the O2..... And aside these any further suggestions from others? Just gonna gather a big list and get through it all eventually I guess.

20th February 2015, 12:31

I had this problem and the wires had split on my pre cat o2 (lamber) sensor got 1 from scrappy sorted

20th February 2015, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel

Car started stalling/cutting out again... Thing is it's fine until I do a short journey, E.g. had to go drs before going work this morning, short journey, got there, parked up turned it off, come back out after 20 seconds and try to start up thats when the cutting out happens/drops below 1k.

i would also look at giving the ICV clean, Cos mine was idling down too much where it looked like it wanted to cutout.. and after i cleaned my ICV it as ok.. but you will need to take it out for a good run after.

20th February 2015, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbie18753

i would also look at giving the ICV clean, Cos mine was idling down too much where it looked like it wanted to cutout.. and after i cleaned my ICV it as ok.. but you will need to take it out for a good run after.

I did initially clean it out before and tbh it wasn't dirty at all looked fine :/ That's where my concern was thinking it may be something else. But just cause it's not dirty doesn't mean it's not fked i guess.

20th February 2015, 16:43

is the eml on? a scanner would probably guide you in the right direction rather than changing every sensor to find the fault.

also check service items, any vacuum leaks? when was the fuel filter last changed? spark plug gap? check your earth points are clean and have a good contact, check all sensor wiring for open circuits!

if it a sensor issue you can check there resistances and compare with manufacture data - if you can get someone from Citroen to tell you them! I'd image if it was a sensor issue it'll either be MAP or crankshaft sensor as these control base map, if either of these signals is faulty the ECU cannot determine engine load and thus cannot determine ignition advance/retard or injection timing.

23rd February 2015, 15:16

as wee monkey said the best thing to do is set aside an afternoon and get yourself a multimeter.
I had a 206 hdi a few years back with the same problem, turned out to be nothing more than the air flow bit, for which brake cleaner is your friend!

23rd February 2015, 19:44

If your battery voltage is too low, it'll stall straight away because the ECU shits itself with too low a voltage (as do most computers in any application). This would also trigger your ABS light. If you start and rev the car the alternator provides voltage to sustain it.

Basically, short journeys flatten your battery. So if you start (drains the battery) and then stop again, it'll not run correctly until the battery holds enough charge.

Easy test, disconnect the battery and check the voltage.

12.8 = almost new, 12.6/12.7 is okay but 12.5 or less it's probably duff.

25th February 2015, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

If your battery voltage is too low, it'll stall straight away because the ECU shits itself with too low a voltage (as do most computers in any application). This would also trigger your ABS light. If you start and rev the car the alternator provides voltage to sustain it.

Basically, short journeys flatten your battery. So if you start (drains the battery) and then stop again, it'll not run correctly until the battery holds enough charge.

Easy test, disconnect the battery and check the voltage.

12.8 = almost new, 12.6/12.7 is okay but 12.5 or less it's probably duff.

Interesting theory, not heard that one before! Possible I suppose seeing as it isn't new and was left alone for basically an entire year... I'll look into testing that. Or maybe just swapping the battery for a while and see if that makes any difference?

25th February 2015, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel

Interesting theory, not heard that one before! Possible I suppose seeing as it isn't new and was left alone for basically an entire year... I'll look into testing that. Or maybe just swapping the battery for a while and see if that makes any difference?

Yeah give it a charge on the bench before trying it, the extra boost might show up by it not stalling after a start.

I had a similar problem with an old battery.

2nd March 2015, 12:53

[link] http://youtu.be/wTJQlZ2W2vM [link]

[link] http://youtu.be/w0QJQuPJUzE [link]

2nd March 2015, 16:15

Hmm an old/worn MAP sensor can cause that!

Mine wasn't cutting out but that's how it revved. dipping down to 500rpm and coming back up.

Could be a combination of sensors though.

3rd March 2015, 00:31

Vtr or vts?

3rd March 2015, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel

[link] http://youtu.be/wTJQlZ2W2vM [link]

[link] http://youtu.be/w0QJQuPJUzE [link]

2nd video,mine still does it,turns over and cuts out,no codes or lights,I wasn't able to find the cause so was the garage I went to,I upgraded the battery but still does it,I'll keep an eye on this thread hoping you will find the problem perhaps it's similar to mine too.

3rd March 2015, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimix

Vtr or vts?

From the gauge cluster I would say VTS.

3rd March 2015, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimix

Vtr or vts?

VTS mate.

3rd March 2015, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeiRoN

2nd video,mine still does it,turns over and cuts out,no codes or lights,I wasn't able to find the cause so was the garage I went to,I upgraded the battery but still does it,I'll keep an eye on this thread hoping you will find the problem perhaps it's similar to mine too.

Yeah mate watch this space. Have you done the ICV, map or o2 sensors at all?

3rd March 2015, 12:55

I have the same issues with mu 106 gti.
Changed the o2, temperature, map sensors, sparkplugs, fuel filter and i still have the problems showing up.

I was told that that the gasket o-rings in the inlet can be causing it, as they go bad in time not fitting 100% so it will take false air in.
Just bought the 4 gaskets needed for 10 quid and going to change them tomorrow

3rd March 2015, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimix

I have the same issues with mu 106 gti.
Changed the o2, temperature, map sensors, sparkplugs, fuel filter and i still have the problems showing up.

I was told that that the gasket o-rings in the inlet can be causing it, as they go bad in time not fitting 100% so it will take false air in.
Just bought the 4 gaskets needed for 10 quid and going to change them tomorrow

Hmm. I had this problem before and after Gasket swap though. Please let us know how it goes however as this seems such a hazey on-going problem for so many people in the Saxo world with no real definitive answer and its starting to p*ss me off someone must have fixed this bug before with a simple answer lol

3rd March 2015, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel

Yeah mate watch this space. Have you done the ICV, map or o2 sensors at all?

Yes cleaned the old one and then bought a brand new one,cleaned the MAP sensor (this made the car a lot better for only a few days) fuel filter few months old same with spark plugs but the problem is still there somewhere.

3rd March 2015, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeiRoN

Yes cleaned the old one and then bought a brand new one,cleaned the MAP sensor (this made the car a lot better for only a few days) fuel filter few months old same with spark plugs but the problem is still there somewhere.

Had the same experience, each new item made the car run smooth for 1-3 days.
The biggest difference was the ICV, cleaned it but then the idle was 3000rpm, ao bought a new one, that really helped alot on other small nigs and nags.

OP, i'll get back to you on friday as the problem isn't showing everyday

3rd March 2015, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeiRoN

Yes cleaned the old one and then bought a brand new one,cleaned the MAP sensor (this made the car a lot better for only a few days) fuel filter few months old same with spark plugs but the problem is still there somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimix

Had the same experience, each new item made the car run smooth for 1-3 days.
The biggest difference was the ICV, cleaned it but then the idle was 3000rpm, ao bought a new one, that really helped alot on other small nigs and nags.

OP, i'll get back to you on friday as the problem isn't showing everyday

Wow. Identical to me, quite glad I'm not the only one lol. Yes the problem could NOT be any more infrequent for me than it is. This makes it 1000000x more difficult to identify and fix. Because for weeks I'll think oh it's fine, my car has ran fine why try fix something that isn't there. Then one day it will run like that piece of shit in the video. Then it will be fine again after... So it's fine for majority of time but still of course not ideal. I find going into neutral at low revs (letting the rev metre die down to about 1k in gear then going into neutral) prevents it from stalling. This has become a habbit of mine now. I find for my journeys say to work in the morning and back in the evening it's fine. It's if I drove to the shops round the corner and then tried to start it back up after a really short journey and no rest period that it suffers and then struggles starts stalling/running shite. I was gonna check the battery charge as someone suggested on another post.

3rd March 2015, 15:52

I tend to put it in neutral then rev the nuts of it a few times, that cures it.

Because it's so periodic it kinda makes it even more posible that it could be the rubber seals not fitting 100%.
/shrug

I'll find put in a few days

3rd March 2015, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimix

I tend to put it in neutral then rev the nuts of it a few times, that cures it.

Because it's so periodic it kinda makes it even more posible that it could be the rubber seals not fitting 100%.
/shrug

I'll find put in a few days

Remember the map sensor is a mechanical sensor, applying sharp high vacuum loads can "loosen" it off.

Mine used to be like that until you floored it right up to the red line. only needed to do that once and it was fine for the rest of the day.

3rd March 2015, 17:29

Electronic problems are the worst for me,especially this ones that leaves no sign or light on the dashboard and happen erratically.
I was just thinking to start replacing sensors going from the cheapest ones,wouldn't harm too since they are probably more than 10 years old.

Luckily,on mine,when it does it a little touch of rev just that much not to let it die is enough but I still want to fix it as soon as possible.

From what I've read on the forum the temperature sensor on the thermostat housing is a good candidate and also the MAP sensor from what I've experienced when I cleaned it.

3rd March 2015, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeiRoN

Electronic problems are the worst for me,especially this ones that leaves no sign or light on the dashboard and happen erratically.
I was just thinking to start replacing sensors going from the cheapest ones,wouldn't harm too since they are probably more than 10 years old.

Luckily,on mine,when it does it a little touch of rev just that much not to let it die is enough but I still want to fix it as soon as possible.

From what I've read on the forum the temperature sensor on the thermostat housing is a good candidate and also the MAP sensor from what I've experienced when I cleaned it.

do you have a pic of your map sensor?

Looking down the hole?

3rd March 2015, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

do you have a pic of your map sensor?

Looking down the hole?

Nope sorry,didn't take a pic,it was quite dirty from what I remember,used the usual spray you can also clean the TB with.

6th March 2015, 13:54

Status, got the o-ring gaskets and removed the inlet manifold (prepare to spend quite some time doing that) only to find out the gaskets where the wrong ones..

So cleaned it up really good and used some "liquid gasket" (not sure of the correct english term) and made sure they where properly sealed before closing everything up again.

The car ran like utter crap afterwards, especially in idle.
Removed the power for 30min and it's all good.
Clearly something was not not fully tight as it now runs completely smooth.

One of the injectors fell out doing dissemply, so that might have been an issue aswell.

So, for me atleast, this cured the problems.
Just make sure you got enough time and the correct gaskets if you plan to do this.

7th March 2015, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimix

Status, got the o-ring gaskets and removed the inlet manifold (prepare to spend quite some time doing that) only to find out the gaskets where the wrong ones..

So cleaned it up really good and used some "liquid gasket" (not sure of the correct english term) and made sure they where properly sealed before closing everything up again.

The car ran like utter crap afterwards, especially in idle.
Removed the power for 30min and it's all good.
Clearly something was not not fully tight as it now runs completely smooth.

One of the injectors fell out doing dissemply, so that might have been an issue aswell.

So, for me atleast, this cured the problems.
Just make sure you got enough time and the correct gaskets if you plan to do this.

I've got a box FULL of o-rings I'm sure I can make fit

Yes liquid gasket. or instant gasket. it's good!

7th March 2015, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

I've got a box FULL of o-rings I'm sure I can make fit

Yes liquid gasket. or instant gasket. it's good!

They are slightly oval and with straight/sharp edges, not like a "true" o-ring

8th March 2015, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimix

They are slightly oval and with straight/sharp edges, not like a "true" o-ring

My MAP sensor is dead!

Bonus! easy to fix hehehe

9th March 2015, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinObviously

My MAP sensor is dead!

Bonus! easy to fix hehehe

I believe i paid 10 quid for mine, so not a budget breaker aswell