Starter motor not engaging against flywheel

1. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

   #1 23rd December 2015, 13:13

   Changed my gearbox over the weekend, 7th box in this car since ive owned it, poxy thing! and now it wont start, the starter motor spins up as you can hear it (sounds like a washer pump noise) but isnt hitting the flywheel, almost as if it isnt flicking out. It worked fine before the change and now its just not playing ball, All bolts are in the Gearbox and torqued down in opposites so its not like its sitting at a funny angle etc
   
   
   Any ideas? Car drives fine off a bump start just not from the key
2. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

   #2 23rd December 2015, 13:50

   If the starter isn't meshing with flywheel,then either the teeth on the starter or the teeth on the flywheel are worn mate.Are all the bolts on the bellhousing done up?
3. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

   #3 23rd December 2015, 15:52

   It worked fine before changing the gearbox dude, all 3 bolts are in starter motor and tight and all bolts on gearbox are tight, maybe starter is sticking and not flicking out?? I'm yet to try hitting the starter motor while turning it but haven't had a second person to try it with til tomorrow
4. Beaniemoo Established Member Joined: Oct 2008 Milton Keynes Posts: 1210 Yellow 106 Rallye

   #4 23rd December 2015, 16:30

   Aren't there dowels on the gearbox or starter that hold it correctly.
   Might be worth checking the old and new box for dowels

   1 user thanked this post: user_20080
5. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

   #5 23rd December 2015, 20:39

   Your right there is dowls on the box but I took them out, as the old box never had them and made it a pain when fitting, I'll loosen the gearbox off and try and slide it off enough to slot the dowels in, don't think I'll be able to though with the shafts etc in.. But would that make all the difference? Considering all the bolts are in and the old box never had them
6. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

   #6 23rd December 2015, 20:40

   Although they may be in the engine, never checked that just saw the old box had none so removed them, school boy error for not checking
7. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

   #7 23rd December 2015, 20:58

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by James93 Your right there is dowls on the box but I took them out, as the old box never had them and made it a pain when fitting, I'll loosen the gearbox off and try and slide it off enough to slot the dowels in, don't think I'll be able to though with the shafts etc in.. But would that make all the difference? Considering all the bolts are in and the old box never had them

   Yes mate it would.
8. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

   #8 23rd December 2015, 22:10

   Ahh bollox! Does that mean I have to take the shafts etc out again? Or should I be able to just take the gearbox bolts out and pull the box off enough to refit them?? As would I need to remove the starter motor or will I be able to move the box with iT in situ?
9. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #9 26th December 2015, 21:02

   Starter or flywheel teeth fucked? Mine were months back had to change flywheel see my build thread for evidence - was quite hard to see the knackers teeth on fly when it was fitted. Pain in the arse!
   
   
   Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
10. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #10 27th December 2015, 09:38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gandi699 Starter or flywheel teeth fucked? Mine were months back had to change flywheel see my build thread for evidence - was quite hard to see the knackers teeth on fly when it was fitted. Pain in the arse! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    I believe it's more of an enlignment issue because it started first time every time before changing the gearbox, it's since I've put it back together, the dowels aren't in the new gearbox there sitting right next to me so that could possibly be the issue. Will I be able to loosen the gearbox bolts off and pull the box off enough to slot the dowels in without taking the shafts etc off?
11. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #11 27th December 2015, 16:12

    Right I went out and undone all the gearbox bolts and rotated the gearbox with a hammer and a bit of wood (oh dear) done it back up and it started, took for a drive turned it off a few times and started again all was okay, just went out and tried it again and now just whirring again!!! Poxy thing, now I'm thinking it's the starter motor as why would it work then not at all? But hitting the box with the hammer is shocking the starter motor and freeing it up maybe? I turned it off and on again a good 10 times, on another note two new driveshafts and a box with no play in the selector feels lovely to drive!
12. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #12 30th December 2015, 00:26

    Could be but also could be was sitting on non worn flywheel teeth so starter fine now its over the worn teeth again the starter can't engage, exactly what mine did
    
    
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13. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #13 30th December 2015, 12:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by James93 Right I went out and undone all the gearbox bolts and rotated the gearbox with a hammer and a bit of wood (oh dear) done it back up and it started, took for a drive turned it off a few times and started again all was okay, just went out and tried it again and now just whirring again!!! Poxy thing, now I'm thinking it's the starter motor as why would it work then not at all? But hitting the box with the hammer is shocking the starter motor and freeing it up maybe? I turned it off and on again a good 10 times, on another note two new driveshafts and a box with no play in the selector feels lovely to drive!

    Had exactly the same thing happen,it turned out to be some of the teeth on the flywheel were worn down mate.
14. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #14 1st January 2016, 18:27

    See I thought maybe worn teeth on flywheel, but if I undo the bolts on the gearbox, hit the box from the bottom with a hammer to rotate it clockwise then nip the bolts up, it turns over and starts up, but like I said never had an issue starting it before ever, it's only since changing the gearbox, is there anyway to get the dowels in without taking the box off? Could just be out of alignment?
15. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #15 1st January 2016, 21:56

    It's only got to be out of alignment a touch and it'll chew the teeth up. all my bolts and dowels were in yet a couple of the bolts weren't done up quite enough causing the box to sit at an odd angle and that did it for me. Have a look at the teeth through the crank sensor hole on the front of box, if they are have a shiny look to them chances are they are fucked. Mine looked like they would be fine with a only a bit missing from each tooth on the flywheel ring gear but weren't at all see my build thread for pictures of this
    
    
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16. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #16 2nd January 2016, 09:26

    I had a look yesterday at your build thread and saw the pictures, I'll inspect the flywheel and see what happens. Hopefully it's not the flywheel, just seems odd that if I twat the box clockwise with a hammer it starts
17. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #17 2nd January 2016, 23:56

    That does seem odd but as the starter is bolted to the box maybe it moves the starter to a good section of the flywheel ring gear. Feel your pain though it's fuck on to sort over something so simple as just starting the car
    
    
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18. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #18 3rd January 2016, 10:41

    Unless the solenoid is sticking & not always pushing the cog out properly to engage with the flywheel?Just a thought.
19. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #19 3rd January 2016, 11:44

    I tried hitting the starter motor while the missus spun it over, still no joy, it's pissing hard today not gonna have chance to look at it hopefully it dies down as back to work tomorrow! Be fun bumping it in the morning. It's odd as I've never had the issue before, ever
20. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #20 4th January 2016, 07:39

    Had to bump start it this morning to get to work, apart from the engine light flashing on and misfiring like a bitch it was all okay, once warmed up and cleared out it was fine, didn't like sitting around for weeks! Once I got to work stopped and tried starting it 10 times, started every time, so the teeth on the flywheel are okay, I've let it cool down for about an hour and it isn't starting again; it's a really strange one, inspected the teeth on the flywheel and they all look okay seems odd that it will start when it's warm but as soon as it cools down It needs to be bumped again, wow I hate peugeots!
21. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #21 4th January 2016, 16:00

    Also when it does actually start the car it sounds weak, almost like a flat battery, but the battery isn't flat at all its charged up? Could this possibly be the starter motor at fault? Such a pain in the ass!
22. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #22 4th January 2016, 16:03

    But all the bolts line up perfectly from the box to the engine and the 10mm crank sensor bolts line up perfectly so does the Engine mount, so that leads me to believe it's not an alignment issue at present, and the car drives perfectly! Surely not having the dowels in wouldn't create a problem like this because the bolts all being tightened up pulls the box square? maybe when the starter motor is getting warm from the exhaust the expansion from the heat is freeing up the solenoid? Bloody confusing it really is!
23. saxi-bad-boi Newbie Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 5

    #23 4th January 2016, 19:23

    Mine was doing this mate slow start's ect then it just died to a click.then changed it for a new starter and it is fine now starts every time. i put a multi metre on mine to check the starter and alternator and they were both getting over 12v and when my mrs turned the key it was putting out over 9v. i got mine from euro for 50 quid and all is well
24. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #24 4th January 2016, 19:48

    Mine doesn't click dude that's the weird thing; it whirs like a washer pump kind of noise like you can hear it spinning, really weird :/
25. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #25 4th January 2016, 20:16

    Beg or borrow a starter to test with, could be failing. Odd about the hot/cold thing
    
    
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26. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #26 4th January 2016, 20:35

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by James93 Also when it does actually start the car it sounds weak, almost like a flat battery, but the battery isn't flat at all its charged up? Could this possibly be the starter motor at fault? Such a pain in the ass!

    Yes the starter could be faulty,because although it's getting the correct volts it's maybe not always spinning the cog fast enough to start the car.
27. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #27 4th January 2016, 20:49

    Mate of mine has a VTR starter motor I can use, is it the same as a 16v one? Maybe that's the case I don't know I hope so just seems strange how it works when it's hot but very weak like a flat battery sound don't understand it
28. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #28 4th January 2016, 22:03

    All the same I believe, I part ex'd my old one in at a motor factors so new one was 55 quid I think
    
    
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29. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #29 5th January 2016, 15:40

    Changed the starter motor today, still no luck! But I bumped started it, drove down the road turned it off and it started again, now it's cool completely and say for a bit doesn't bloody start! What's wrong with this car 😡😡😡 checked the flywheel teeth they don't look worn so confused
30. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #30 5th January 2016, 18:54

    Something must be expanding with heat then once cold it contracts and stops it from doing its thing? Hate problems like this! I'd be inclined to pull the box off it.. does your starter spin or what not when it won't start? Or just gets stuck?
    
    
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31. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #31 5th January 2016, 19:41

    At a guess the solenoid is breaking down when it's hot.
32. James93 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Gravesend, Kent Posts: 727 106 GTi, MK2 Saxo VTR, Corsa C SXi,

    #32 5th January 2016, 23:25

    Feel like an idiot, where I was rushing to get th box back on fighting daylight I forgot to attach a bloody earth! All that ball ache and it was an earth! Feel like an idiot but these things happen! thanks for all the help it's finally sorted!
33. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #33 6th January 2016, 10:13

    dont feel too bad about it, nothing like an easy fix! hope it hasnt cost you any money
34. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #34 6th January 2016, 10:45

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by James93 Feel like an idiot, where I was rushing to get th box back on fighting daylight I forgot to attach a bloody earth! All that ball ache and it was an earth! Feel like an idiot but these things happen! thanks for all the help it's finally sorted!

    We've all been there mate,don't beat yourself up.