TUD5 crank locking pin.

23rd November 2018, 20:43

Hi all,

A long time since I was here, Why ? No problems.

Anyhow. A couple of nights ago my timing belt snapped. The engine was only idling over, and there wasn't the hideous death rattle of a complete disintegration. It just stopped.

I have changed a few XUD belts in the past. But not a TUD5.

SO, today I had everything set up for the new belt EXCEPT for locking the crank.

And my problem is, I can't find a hole in the rear of the cylinder block for the pin to go in.

The Gospel according to Haynes says it is at the front face of the block on the left hand side by the metal details tag that is riveted to the block. Even has a picture.

I don't see a tag. Nor the hole.

So just how do you lock the crank on the 1.5 TUD5 engine ?

Hope someone can help.

Dave.

26th November 2018, 19:06

right here on the "front" of the engine block.

There's a big hole on the front about 20mm, it's "up" and left of that hole tight against the block. use a 5mm drill bit or allen key.

See location of the timing tool OUT0000085

26th November 2018, 23:25

Martin',

Thanks for that. After much probing about I had just come to the conclusion that the rather nondescript hole you mention must be it.

As I have no special timing tool (as mentioned above) I propose to loosen the camshaft hold down screws sufficient to allow the crank to be set via the hole. All valves will be closed, so no collision risk.

Then, making sure the cam lobes on Number four cylinder are upright, carefully tighten them back down, at the same time locating the 8mm bolt through the cam sprocket hole.

With this done and the injector pump already locked in place, I think I should be good to fit the belt.

Would you agree ?

Dave.

27th November 2018, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by davesaxdiesel

Martin',

Thanks for that. After much probing about I had just come to the conclusion that the rather nondescript hole you mention must be it.

As I have no special timing tool (as mentioned above) I propose to loosen the camshaft hold down screws sufficient to allow the crank to be set via the hole. All valves will be closed, so no collision risk.

Then, making sure the cam lobes on Number four cylinder are upright, carefully tighten them back down, at the same time locating the 8mm bolt through the cam sprocket hole.

With this done and the injector pump already locked in place, I think I should be good to fit the belt.

Would you agree ?

Dave.

Yeah should be good, remember to loosen the 3 bolts in the middle of the pump and camshaft pulley before you put the belt on.

If you don't, the car will be extremely hard to start because the pump timing needs to be bang on.

The reason you need to do this, if you try to tension the belt with both pulleys pinned you only tension the belt between the cam and the water pump, the rest of the belt stays slack. when you unpin it the whole belt becomes slack and the timing moves.

Here is the official method for timing - plus the bits I drew on!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qah5in3e9...3ARdXp0Qa?dl=0

27th November 2018, 23:51

Thanks for that explanation of why the sprocket bolts need to be loosened; makes sense.

Lots of rain today, maybe tomorrow.

Dave.

29th November 2018, 22:03

Ah well, You can't win them all.

I was till having trouble locating the crank location pin hole.

So I took off the camshaft and; one cam-follower is about 5mm lower than the rest.

A bent valve at the very least. hope it hasn't damaged the piston.

It's a while since I removed a head.

And if I remember correctly, it was also always winter.

Back in a while with an update.

Dave.

30th November 2018, 00:29

As I can't edit the above post I will have to ad an addendum here.

..locating the crank location pin hole....

Should read ..

..locating the pin through the hole and into the flywheel...

Dave.

30th November 2018, 18:45

I think I may go for changing the engine. Still ten month on the MOT. So the maths still make sense.

In case I can't find another Saxo Diesel localy, can anyone suggest other cars that the TUD5 is fitted to ?

Maybe the Peugeot 106 ?

Dave.

Also, why can't I edit my posts ?

4th December 2018, 19:30

Not sure why you can't edit posts?

It's very rare to bend valves in these, as the valves are vertical and the piston crown is flat - you normally break the buckets and the shims come flying out at great speed

I've hit valves loads when my big end bearings failed and I re-used them all.

Lift out the lifter and look at the valve.

Rover Metro 100D but not in the UK, but they came with it. The giant TORO lawn mowers come with them

Apart from that, 106, Saxo and AX all came with 1.5D engines, a 1.4D would be fine as well. you won't notice the difference in power either.

4th December 2018, 22:19

Martin',

I decided to go for a belt and braces approach.

I bought another engine. still have to arrange for it to be delivered from Wales.

My brother was keen on helping get it until he realised it was a 320 Mile round trip.

Anyway, I am having it sent via carrier.

I now have a couple of options.

Just get the engine swapped as-is. (change the belt, easy with the engine out)
Take the head off the old engine, check condition of piston, valves etc. If the Piston is ok, but the valve(s), head damaged take the head off the new engine and fit it.

I'm balancing up the pros and cons. Swap engine = quick fix, but I'll have to get a garage to do it. (getting too old to crawl around on the concrete). Only cost will be what the garage charges. I have a daughter who has a boyfriend who works in a garage.

Swapping the head means a new gasket (£25). But the engine can stay in the car.

Maybe best to hope the engine is a good one and just swap it.

If it turns out to be 'iffy' I can always revert to plan one.

Or, if no detectable damage to head, piston or valves is found, I can just clean it up, grind in the valves (may as well as the head is off) and refit. Cost, again, £25 for the gasket. Plus, of course, oil and filter; but I have that whichever way I go.
And I'll have a spare engine.

Do you think I have a plan ?

Dave.

4th December 2018, 22:24

Sounds good man. Take the head off the old engine and have a look before your new engine arrives

That'll help you decided

As long as the pistons don't have large chunks missing they'll be fine with a few valve marks on them.

I'd be up for swapping the heads. It's way easier.

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5th December 2018, 21:02

Martin',

Yes, I'll probably go with the head swap option if the piston is good. It's the easy option and will be cheaper. Also a one man job.

Isn't it typical, we had months of fine dry weather and now I need a few good days it is always raining.

The engine should be dispatched tomorrow.

Dave.

5th December 2018, 21:02

To any mod.

Why am I not allowed to edit my posts ?

Dave.

12th December 2018, 22:53

Something strange going on.

I am only seeing one page on this thread. and it ends with my post #13.

I do know that someone responded to that question.

But it seems to have disappeared.

Dave.

12th December 2018, 23:10

Thus latest post is #14 my post now will be #15

Have you tried using a different browser?

Quote:

Originally Posted by davesaxdiesel

Something strange going on.

I am only seeing one page on this thread. and it ends with my post #13.

I do know that someone responded to that question.

But it seems to have disappeared.

Dave.

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk

13th December 2018, 19:23

Martin',

Yes, I see you as post #15. This will be #16.

I do recall seeing someone responding to me with 'I don't know why you can't edit your post' or something very similar. It appears to have disappeared. Unless maybe the posted deleted it.

Anyway, onward.

I changed the head. All done except for one item.

I discovered that the injectors in the replacement head are longer than the ones in the original. So the pipes wont go on. For one thing the number 4 pipe butts against the throttle control arm.

The answer is (obviously) to use my original injectors.

But I now have a pile of eight pipes. And can't recall to which pump outlet port each one goes.

I assume that the pump rotates anti-clockwise when viewed from the port end. And from a picture I believe that the top left hand port (at about 10:30 o'clock) connects with #4 (Timing end) cylinder.
A further assumption is that the pump opens ports in the firing order (1,3,4,2) as it rotates ant-clockwise.

So #1 port will be diametrically opposite #4 port.

After an hour or two working outside at +4C in a chill North Easterly all the pipes tend to look the same.

Any guidance on this will be appreciated.

Dave.

13th December 2018, 19:27

The taller injectors will be Lucas ones. Bosch ones are shorter.

I'll be at my unit in a few hours so can check the pipe routing for both types and post pictures

The pipe routing for Bosch and Lucas is different.

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16th December 2018, 19:41

All sorted out.

With the shorter injectors fitted the pipes more or less fell into place.

It took a bit of winding over to get it to fire up. A lot of air in the system. But once started it soon settled down to nice steady beat.
I do notice some air coming from the fuel filter to the pump. I'll take off the filter and re-fit it.
But otherwise a successful job.

Total cost just under £300.

Saxo lives again.

Thanks for all the help from you guys here.

Dave.

16th December 2018, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by davesaxdiesel

All sorted out.

With the shorter injectors fitted the pipes more or less fell into place.

It took a bit of winding over to get it to fire up. A lot of air in the system. But once started it soon settled down to nice steady beat.
I do notice some air coming from the fuel filter to the pump. I'll take off the filter and re-fit it.
But otherwise a successful job.

Total cost just under £300.

Saxo lives again.

Thanks for all the help from you guys here.

Dave.

Sorry I totally forgot to take pictures!

Yeah if you can still see the odd air bubble I'd just bypass it totally and fit an inline filter between the primer bulb and the pump. it's probably the small relief valve that's leaking or a hole in a hose.

16th December 2018, 23:25

Martin'.

I was considering that. Much easier to change.

No worries about the pictures.

Dave.