vts vs 106 gti

17th September 2006, 15:07

wats faster vts or 106 gti?

17th September 2006, 15:08

there exactly the same... nothing in it at all.

exact same engines.

17th September 2006, 15:10

I normally see gti's beating vts's though.

17th September 2006, 15:17

GTI has better handling?

17th September 2006, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billog_VTR

I normally see gti's beating vts's though.

well obviously the saxo drivers are shite or the gti driver is just better. or the saxos are in shite condition.

cos the cars have exactly the same engine.

btw a "street race" proves nothing.

if ur on about a track race then see above.

17th September 2006, 15:39

[QUOTE=Krovean;653668]well obviously the saxo drivers are shite or the gti driver is just better. or the saxos are in shite condition.QUOTE]

or the GTI has had more modding done to it. Plenty of reasons.

And since when did you decide whether a street race meant something or nothing?!

17th September 2006, 15:47

lol a street race lol grow up, ur in a saxo.

what makes u think u can get 2 unemployed pikeys that can drive EXACTLY the same to test these cars?

in a "street race" its all down to the driver, which driver is shit and which one is more shit.

oh and public roads arent suitable to test cars like this.

if u had a vts vs a 106gti in a "street race" and the vts won. I would say its cos the gti driver was shit, and i'd think the same if a gti won.

17th September 2006, 15:53

bullshit mate.

By street race you obviously mean something different to what I do. Ive seen plenty of cars go at it in a straight line for maybe a mile or so and some have involved a 106 gti.

lol @ public roads arent suitable to test cars like this. Nobody said they were but who are you the police?!

Why does it have to be down to one driver being shit? Could it not just be that one car was faster than the other?

17th September 2006, 15:58

no. cos were talkin about 2 cars that are exactly the same.

anyway my mum says im not allowed to talk to vtr owners, sry, bye.

17th September 2006, 16:00

lol funny because she talks to me an awful lot xx

17th September 2006, 17:20

LOL now now

17th September 2006, 19:32

GTi, as they are slightly lighter than the VTS!

17th September 2006, 19:42

i dont know much about engines but doesnt the 106 GTI have a turbo ? and the VTS doesnt?

17th September 2006, 19:53

ok according to parkers guide the vts is almost a second faster in the 0-60 range and 15kilo lighter so i think the vts would scrape it

17th September 2006, 19:58

correct u know nothing about engines, gtis dont have turbos on what have u based that upon?

17th September 2006, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by argylefan1985

correct u know nothing about engines, gtis dont have turbos on what have u based that upon?

i dont have a clue.... i just thought GTI ment it is turbo'd on any car.

golf GTI are turbo'd tho aint they ?

17th September 2006, 20:34

lol no gti doesnt mean turbo. golf gti's are not either.
tdi means turbo diesel, you can get golf tdi's and many others.

i wont add to gti, vts debate as i cant be arsed

17th September 2006, 20:37

ok fair enough. correct me if i am wrong but doesnt GTI mean gran turbo injection. ?? and my mates GOLF GTI has got a turbo and i'm sure it's not been added extra, i am sure it came standard

17th September 2006, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by england11_2004

i dont have a clue.... i just thought GTI ment it is turbo'd on any car.

golf GTI are turbo'd tho aint they ?

Only the Mark 4 1.8 GTi and the new one.

Vts and 106 gti are pretty evenly matched....you would expect that though with them having the same chassis, suspension setup, engine and gear box though wouldn't you?

Iirc the gti is Insurance group 13 though and the vts 14.

<edit> GTi means Grand Touring Injection or the french equivelent

18th September 2006, 08:32

LMBO @ Krovean...

Roads are what cars are driven on & intended for, accual road testing is very important! the GTI & VTS are not track cars... so IMO the road is the best place for testing them! obviously a well trained driver is essential to do this & young usually hot headed drivers are not ideal. the VTS is ever so slightly lighter than the GTI, but when you take into consideration the condition of the engine internals etc etc, there would be very very little between them in a fair test.

Peugeot are the "mother" company as they own approx. 80% of citreaon so id have the GTI also for looks & insurance, id prefer the GTI.

id dissagree with the shit drivers comment tho krovean... you never know what the other driver has up his sleave! eg he might be a rallye cross driver, or a track day enthusiast or maybe an advanced driving instructor... i think both drivers being shit cos they are on the main roads is a throw away statement!

18th September 2006, 08:44

gti is faster than vts as the ecu (engine managment set-up) is better than the vts hence why many ppl prefere to hav gti engine transplant than vts.
as its a little more responsive.

fact not fiction

18th September 2006, 08:47

Vts and 106 gti are pretty evenly matched....you would expect that though with them having the same chassis, suspension setup, engine and gear box though wouldn't you

gti has smaller wheels than mk2 vts (aids acceleration)
and has a thicker rear ARB, (helps 'turn-in')

and lol at the gti being turbo!!!!!

18th September 2006, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambinator

gti is faster than vts as the ecu (engine managment set-up) is better than the vts hence why many ppl prefere to hav gti engine transplant than vts.
as its a little more responsive.

fact not fiction

They run the same map, produce the same torque figures and are the same car.

The VTS is 15kgs lighter, the 106 has slighly smaller wheels. There is sod all difference and most are modified in some way anyway. Shit thread that's always debated by people with slow cars. Grow up

18th September 2006, 08:48

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gti is faster than vts as the ecu (engine managment set-up) is better than the vts hence why many ppl prefere to hav gti engine transplant than vts.
as its a little more responsive.

fact not fiction

that is bullshit!!!!!!

prove iut if its fact.

18th September 2006, 08:50

i've seen many drag races and seen gti's v vts and gti's win hands down

18th September 2006, 08:51

as u got a vts wills find sum1 with a gti and do a short sprint.

18th September 2006, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambinator

i've seen many drag races and seen gti's v vts and gti's win hands down

Oh well thats told me, sod the fact that they run totally the same engine configuration, if you saw one win in a drag race then thats more than proof enough

18th September 2006, 08:53

i have beat them before at 1/4 mile, but as mine isnt standard and most gtis arent how can you compare in that way. also, that doesnt prove they have different maps does it?

if you going to state something as being fact back it up.

18th September 2006, 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambinator

as u got a vts wills find sum1 with a gti and do a short sprint.

I raced a standard one at santa pod once. I won as I have more power. Apparently you need power in a race, not a pug badge. Odd that

18th September 2006, 08:56

lol, so my pugsport keyring isnt helping me?

18th September 2006, 09:05

<snigger>

some of the crap in this thread is hysterical

18th September 2006, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

They run the same map, produce the same torque figures and are the same car.

The VTS is 15kgs lighter, the 106 has slighly smaller wheels. There is sod all difference and most are modified in some way anyway. Shit thread that's always debated by people with slow cars. Grow up

clueless people read the above quote then accept it and walk away

some of the shit posted in this thread is unbelievable its going to be as bad as the 60 in 2nd thread

18th September 2006, 12:38

the gti is 130bhp isn't it ?

so slightly more power than the mk1 VTS @ 120bhp (if they are 130!)

18th September 2006, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easty

the gti is 130bhp isn't it ?

so slightly more power than the mk1 VTS @ 120bhp (if they are 130!)

lol... 120bhp mate same as vts, and thers no difference in power between mk1 and mk2 vts

18th September 2006, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easty

the gti is 130bhp isn't it ?

so slightly more power than the mk1 VTS @ 120bhp (if they are 130!)

...someone just said.
they are EXACTLY the same engine, with exactly the same figures.
Last time i checked dude, 130 wasnt the same number as 120 :/

18th September 2006, 13:05

mwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

(slams head in to desk)

18th September 2006, 13:17

The VTS has a better 0-60 than the GTi because of different gearing. I remember reading in Car when they came out that the GTi required a change to 3rd before reaching 60, hence the slightly slower 0-60.

ps There is a clip of a drag race between a VTS and a GTi on youtube.com. VTS wins

18th September 2006, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissyboy

ps There is a clip of a drag race between a VTS and a GTi on youtube.com. VTS wins

Could be any of many reasons why this happened.

18th September 2006, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

i have beat them before at 1/4 mile, but as mine isnt standard and most gtis arent how can you compare in that way. also, that doesnt prove they have different maps does it?

if you going to state something as being fact back it up.

Well i want to see evidence of every comment you have just made in this thread then. lol Ridiculous requests dont mean anything either mate. You obviously know he cant prove what he's saying, same way I wouldnt expect you to.

18th September 2006, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissyboy

The VTS has a better 0-60 than the GTi because of different gearing. I remember reading in Car when they came out that the GTi required a change to 3rd before reaching 60, hence the slightly slower 0-60.

ps There is a clip of a drag race between a VTS and a GTi on youtube.com. VTS wins

The gearing is the same as they use THE SAME FUCKING GEARBOX WITH THE SAME FUCKING FINAL DRIVE AND THE SAME COGS, the boxes themselves are made in the same factory BY THE SAME BLOKE. His name is Gareth.

18th September 2006, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

His name is Gareth.

Actually laughing out loud!!!!!!!!

18th September 2006, 13:56

williams and campdavid, great posts! you guys amuse me

18th September 2006, 13:58

Its not like this is a hard concept to grasp is it?

Scott - I may have been lying about Garath. I believe his moved on to pastures new and some French bints taken over making them part time while she's at uni

18th September 2006, 14:03

i know its not hard to grasp, just some people really think they know what they are on about,and they dont!

18th September 2006, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

The gearing is the same as they use THE SAME FUCKING GEARBOX WITH THE SAME FUCKING FINAL DRIVE AND THE SAME COGS, the boxes themselves are made in the same factory BY THE SAME BLOKE. His name is Gareth.

PMSL!!!!!!! lol class

18th September 2006, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

the boxes themselves are made in the same factory BY THE SAME BLOKE. His name is Gareth.

Quote of the week!!!!! so far...

Absolute classic!

18th September 2006, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

gti has smaller wheels than mk2 vts (aids acceleration)
and has a thicker rear ARB, (helps 'turn-in')

Never knew the pug had thicker ARB, i thought it was only the rallye, i stand corrected.

18th September 2006, 14:49

supposedly gti's have the 24mm arb, and its just the s2 rallyes ive been told

18th September 2006, 14:52

I was always under the impression that both the rallye and the GTI had the same suspension setup. S1 Rallyes have a different rear beam with drums on. I love S1 Rallyes

18th September 2006, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

The gearing is the same as they use THE SAME FUCKING GEARBOX WITH THE SAME FUCKING FINAL DRIVE AND THE SAME COGS, the boxes themselves are made in the same factory BY THE SAME BLOKE. His name is Gareth.

Quite excited by that I see.

I was actually offering a reasoned arguement for the possible difference on 0-60 times.

If you can possibly bring yourself to contemplating that there may actually be a difference, just as every tester in every magazine suggests, it might be to the benefit of this discussion

18th September 2006, 15:28

s1 rallye's had the 22mm ARB with drum brakes, s2 were 24mm with discs. Courtesy of the rallye register website.

S1's with 16v lumps are the tits. :thumbup:

18th September 2006, 15:30

I heard that the carpets on the VTS were thicker though, so the gti could get better times ?

18th September 2006, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissyboy

Quite excited by that I see.

I was actually offering a reasoned arguement for the possible difference on 0-60 times.

If you can possibly bring yourself to contemplating that there may actually be a difference, just as every tester in every magazine suggests, it might be to the benefit of this discussion

Grab the gear ratios for the 106 gti and VTS gearboxes and compare. I'm pretty sure they are the same.

18th September 2006, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissyboy

Quite excited by that I see.

I was actually offering a reasoned arguement for the possible difference on 0-60 times.

If you can possibly bring yourself to contemplating that there may actually be a difference, just as every tester in every magazine suggests, it might be to the benefit of this discussion

They are the same gearbox, the specs were on the SSC but I'm pretty sure you can get them from anywhere. The wheelsize is different. I've never read a road test which has claimed a different gearset for the two cars, though road testers make mistakes so I'm sure its happened.

I can't bring myself to contemplate that there may be a difference as I've driven both cars and both are good for the same speeds in each gear while the technical data also states that they are the same.

I'd imagine the road tester in the ONE magazine artical that you've read which gets it wrong was probably thinking of the difference in wheel size as that will change the ratios in effect

18th September 2006, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyt

s1 rallye's had the 22mm ARB with drum brakes, s2 were 24mm with discs. Courtesy of the rallye register website.

S1's with 16v lumps are the tits. :thumbup:

Or S2's with S1 gearboxes

I want a S1 box for mine

18th September 2006, 15:33

Now that's a nicer way of putting it Simo, thanks

I only got the idea about the gear ratios from Car. They have been known to be wrong from time to time.

18th September 2006, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissyboy

Now that's a nicer way of putting it Simo, thanks

I only got the idea about the gear ratios from Car. They have been known to be wrong from time to time.

I'm sorry if my way of putting it offended you. I thought by putting it in an amusing way I'd distract the attention from your stupidity and instead make a light joke out of it. How wrong I was

18th September 2006, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyt

S1's with 16v lumps are the tits. :thumbup:

To be honest the 1.3 is fun enough. 8 valves with a peak at 7000rpm, thus peek power is nearly as high up as a 16 valve on Piper 285 cams

18th September 2006, 15:55

S1 box in my VTR was great fun LOBO at this thred!!!

18th September 2006, 15:56

They are good, massive improvement in acceleration too. Tempted by one on mine, they cost a load though

18th September 2006, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

They are good, massive improvement in acceleration too. Tempted by one on mine, they cost a load though

speaking to a lad with a S1 Rallye box in his VTS.. said he noticed a massive improvement in the bottom end acceleration... but it took him 6 months to find a decent one ,and he ended up paying double what he wanted to :|

18th September 2006, 16:18

Also you'll be doing about 5k at 80mph, which is a headache

18th September 2006, 16:34

am I right in thinking a 1.1 box from an ax or saxo will also fit and offer very quick acceleration but again awful top end?

18th September 2006, 16:37

On a VTR it would be a bit too short, the 1.1 box is a tiny bit shorter than the VTS bx, only as tiny bit mind. When I find them I'll pop up the specs for all the boxes

18th September 2006, 16:39

Is there not ax one that has only 4 forward gears though?

18th September 2006, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billog_VTR

Is there not ax one that has only 4 forward gears though?

Probably. I'm currently driving a 1.6 106 (blacktop VTR engine) with a 3 speed auto. Its shit

18th September 2006, 17:02

110mph is the limiter in 5th S1 box in a VTR, spins right thru to 4th if you give it some, i blew the dif in mine tho... 60mhp in 5 th was around 3.5k if i remember correctly not 100% on that statement... my bad

18th September 2006, 17:05

limiter on a VTR is at about 6300? I know that maintaining a constant 100mph in a 16v S1 rallye gives you a fuck off headache

18th September 2006, 17:08

the problem i had is that the smile on my face always made me think sod the headache.... civics & focus's didnt liek it tho... LMBO!! I know Pavili got a time of 5.75 for 0-60 in his VTR witha S1 box in & filter + zorst.... great fun

anyways still have a GTI coz there faster than a VTS & turbod! LMBO!!

jokes

18th September 2006, 17:10

lol, a VTR wouldn't have a hope of a sub 6 0-60 with an S1 box, it helps but it won't do that much. Wish I'd bought a 106 now after reading this

18th September 2006, 18:04

Originally Posted by chrissyboy
Quite excited by that I see.

I was actually offering a reasoned arguement for the possible difference on 0-60 times.

If you can possibly bring yourself to contemplating that there may actually be a difference, just as every tester in every magazine suggests, it might be to the benefit of this discussion

Grab the gear ratios for the 106 gti and VTS gearboxes and compare. I'm pretty sure they are the same.

i have a gto box and a vts box in bits and pieces, each and every cog/gear crown wheel and crown wheel pinion is EXACTLY the same.

unless its a robot testing the car then obviously there is going to be differences in stated times etc, its down to human reactions and skill.

they are the same car, i have put gti and vts ecus on the same engine before on they have ran NO differently.
so all the numb nuts that are claiming 130bhp formt the gti please show me where somewhere official states these differences.

18th September 2006, 18:06

gear ratios for gti/vts

TU5J4 - engine
5-speed manual - box type
MA5 - box type
3.93 - final drive
16x63 - CWP teeth
3.41 12x41 - 1st
1.95 20x39 - 2nd
1.36 28x38 - 3rd
1.05 37x39 - 4th
0.85 41x35 - 5th

18th September 2006, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

lol, a VTR wouldn't have a hope of a sub 6 0-60 with an S1 box, it helps but it won't do that much. Wish I'd bought a 106 now after reading this

read the slip he has! i couldnt belive it either!!!!

19th September 2006, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestyVTR

read the slip he has! i couldnt belive it either!!!!

they were hand written at trax and some of the other times given out prove that they werent the most accurate of times

as for the rest of this thread its class,some of the shit people have come out with is so amusing

19th September 2006, 10:47

0-60 times need to be taken with a pinch of salt unless your using some serious Datron timing gear. That time would have put him just ahead of George Leak's VTS, which was stripped, throttle bodied and running PT52 cams and I'm pretty sure it had a shortened gearbox. George was running over 170bhp and from what i hear can launch a bit. That was the quickest 0-60 on the old SSC leaderboard (5.8 I think)

19th September 2006, 11:04

PMSL at this thread

I thought it was common knowledge the cars are 99.9% identical

19th September 2006, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ry_B

PMSL at this thread

I thought it was common knowledge the cars are 99.9% identical

pmsl @ you. Have you compared the cars? 99.9% identical is bullshit lol The cars are very different, the engine and running gear are identical. However this does not equate to 99.9%.

19th September 2006, 11:25

I think he was refering to the running gear though. Which is 99.9% identical

19th September 2006, 11:44

lol yes i know, get slightly annoyed when people contribute very little to a thread but like to sit on their high horse as if they know it all! Nothing personal but if he knows so much then lets hear his 2pence!

What is this 0.1% too there must be something different?! Other than the badge on the rocker cover!

19th September 2006, 11:50

No, the 0.1% is the badge on the coilpack cover, the GTI/VTS not having rockers

19th September 2006, 11:53

[QUOTE=Billog_VTR;657647]lol yes i know, get slightly annoyed when people contribute very little to a thread but like to sit on their high horse as if they know it all! [QUOTE]

Reading through this thread that sounds a lot like you

19th September 2006, 11:55

Well It all depends on which car has its fog lights one don't it

19th September 2006, 12:07

LOL this thread is funny, btw my GTi doesnt have fog lights it has driving lamps which adds like 15.7bhp per light. Plus i got a magnex and decat which means im running like 180bhp at the moment (rest of the engine is standard).

Oh also the gearbox im using is off my Mountain Bike, 21 gears but really short ratio, can only do 60mph but i get there in 4seconds. All truth i swear!

19th September 2006, 12:12

[QUOTE=CampDavid;657672][QUOTE=Billog_VTR;657647]lol yes i know, get slightly annoyed when people contribute very little to a thread but like to sit on their high horse as if they know it all!

Quote:

Reading through this thread that sounds a lot like you

lol, and not once have I quoted any technical statements about any of the cars mentioned above in a mannor suggesting I knew it all or doubted the fact that they are identical. I know the running gear is the same, in the same way you do. Anyone can pick up a haynes and quote the same stuff you have so should I question your contribution to the thread?

19th September 2006, 12:58

my point was exactly that, you've not contributed, you've just judged others. I've at least tried to answer the question

19th September 2006, 13:00

Id say a 106 Gti........Or my wicked furio

19th September 2006, 13:01

my 1.1i is faster than any gti/vts!!!!! end of!!!!!

19th September 2006, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

my 1.1i is faster than any gti/vts!!!!! end of!!!!!

I was thinking of 1.1 converting my VTS, is it an easy swap?

19th September 2006, 13:12

yeah, all you need is engine, loom and flux capacitor.

you may need to use a bigger fuel pump and 27bar fpr though.

some people have had to get custom driveshafts made up as the vts shafts cant cope with the torque increase.

19th September 2006, 13:14

I wonder if I can get away with one off the cars downstairs, I belive they run 25bar FPRs

Do I need to get one out of a 106 or a saxo. I was also looking at shoving the carb'd 1.0 "monster" from an early 205 in

19th September 2006, 13:16

no, the fpr needs to be from a 1976 chevvy camaro 5.7 V8. that is the only known fpr big enough to power the infamous 1L............

19th September 2006, 13:18

actually I think you'll find that the HDI engines run at 200BAR and can inject diesel through skin, making them annoying to work on as you may die (that is actually true!!)

19th September 2006, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

my point was exactly that, you've not contributed, you've just judged others. I've at least tried to answer the question

Lol, well I do apologize!

19th September 2006, 13:52

good

19th September 2006, 15:39

its all myth, before i knew anything which i only know slight about vts/gtis all i heard was ooooo gti ist an animalllllllll vts's are quite quick to,,, but a gtii oooooo errrrrr welll iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii beast!!!!!! but from what people have proved , they are exactly the same give or take 1-2bhp and about 15kgs so its more than likely gonna go down to who ate all the pies!!!

19th September 2006, 15:46

Basically is safe to say this thread is useless! To compare the 2 cars regarding styling would be a worthy thread but im sure thats but done over and over by now as these cars are not new to anyone.

Same engine same gearbox, forget the crap and rumours you have heard. Only slight differences i will accept are weight differences.

19th September 2006, 16:00

saxo has a longer engine bay for some reason, cars are about the same length overall.

19th September 2006, 16:02

I hate it when people say my GTi is smaller than my old Saxo VTR! It may look smaller but it aint ffs!

19th September 2006, 16:05

hahaha, it isn't, but if you check the slam panel on the 106 is further back than on the saxo, making the engine bay a touch shorter. It makes no difference to anyone. Well, unless you're trying to fit a sod off turbo in when it may help, even then not by much though

19th September 2006, 16:05

think its cos pug is more square shaped and just seems smaller

19th September 2006, 16:42

Saxo's engine bay is a bit squarer as the lights go back in the in the 106s bay, making it look a touch more agressive