Any Mk2 VTR Turbo owners around?

20th September 2006, 01:14

Just a quick question. When you turbo'd your VTR what did you do about the downpipe from the turbo as mk2 VTR's have the cat on the downpipe am i correct?

20th September 2006, 01:22

if your going for a turbo application then surely you would upgrade the standard manifold to help vent the pressure from the turbo better?

20th September 2006, 01:28

yeah would be having a custom made manifold obviously but wondering what they did about the down pipe etc

20th September 2006, 09:14

Although I am not runnin a turbo setup, I have looked at the process very carefully as I still haven't ruled out the possibllity of Blowin my Phase2 VTS.

If you are lookin to blow you engine either 8v or 16v makes no difference, you'd have to be mad to try and knock up your own conversion.

If you take a look at this picture, which is the Turbo kit from Cituning www.cituning.ltd.uk the kit includes everything need to convert a NA engine to a Turbocharged engine

Note that the cat is part of the exhaust manifold to down pipe so to be MoT friendly.

Other people who are runnin different kits may tell you different but this is the kit I am lookin at.

Hope this helps

20th September 2006, 10:39

Quite a few people have fabricated their own turbo setups.

If you want to keep the cat I'd change to a VTS exhaust setup and have the cat outside of the manifold

20th September 2006, 11:13

or early mk1 vtr exhaust

20th September 2006, 11:16

Realistically, you want a BTB on any forced induction car. Fit and forget quality and a increased bore = best gains

20th September 2006, 11:17

That said, Carworx got a 60bhp gain from creating a proper spec exhaust on a Turbo'd AX VTS which originally had a shitty quad exit custom job

20th September 2006, 11:43

you'd have to be mad to try and knock up your own conversion.

explain?

20th September 2006, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

you'd have to be mad to try and knock up your own conversion.

explain?

it took me ages to find out who wrote that

if i was going turbo route id have ago at doing it

just depends how confident you are

20th September 2006, 12:35

Using a MK1 Exhaust well not the exhaust as i would be uprating this to a bigger bore but i though that using a MK1 cat on mk2 there were problems with lambda sensors and passing mot???

20th September 2006, 12:42

if your thinking about turbing it your going to have problems passing an mot

20th September 2006, 12:45

i guess so. weren't there away to trick emission computer into thinking both lambda's were plugged in but only one was?? like on the gmc manifolds they have the lambda sleeve to put the second one in??

20th September 2006, 12:48

i have that manifold but it acts as a decat so i dont think it would pass an mot

20th September 2006, 12:50

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if your thinking about turbing it your going to have problems passing an mot

No you aint i never had problems gettin an MOT with my SC'd VTR, i had a replacement PULSAR cat made up to take out part of my BTB

20th September 2006, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somers

No you aint i never had problems gettin an MOT with my SC'd VTR, i had a replacement PULSAR cat made up to take out part of my BTB

howdy somers another refugee from ssc

yes you could do that

why a pulsar one

20th September 2006, 12:56

Because the pulsar one gets thru an MOT easily enough and it doesnt need that mucho's bodging to make it fit

20th September 2006, 12:57

Oh and been around here since FEB 2003 LOL just in the back ground, dont post much LOL

20th September 2006, 12:57

any idea how carworx get round the problem somers? im guessing its a sport cat, chop end off and add new welding to mate upto side of the turbo??

20th September 2006, 12:58

I am seriously thinking of doing some kits for the DIY market cus so many people seem to want to do this recently

20th September 2006, 12:58

They have my Pulsar Cat sitting there so assume they use that on all their cars LOL

20th September 2006, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somers

Oh and been around here since FEB 2003 LOL just in the back ground, dont post much LOL

i saw your name the other day

but didnt relise it was you until you said supercharged vtr

20th September 2006, 13:00

you yourself make them?

20th September 2006, 13:01

with carworx can you call up and ask for something to be made and they send it to you or is a more of go down to there place sort of thing?

20th September 2006, 13:04

I'm gonna go speak to a few people as i could get some manifolds made i reckon

20th September 2006, 13:05

No u can call em and order stuff, no problemo.

20th September 2006, 13:07

ok cool, any idea on how much they'd be?, well a rough guess ,as obviously at present moment would won't know yourself

. Somers was your turbo engine a mk1 or mk2, and how to you sort the issue with lambda sensors for MOT purpose??

20th September 2006, 13:23

Mine was 90bhp Silvertop with 270 Cam for the records, i'll also ran a supersprint 4-2-1 mani and BTB exhaust

U you require a sigcon and the pulsar cat i mentioned before to make the MOT

20th September 2006, 13:32

well my options were to either, fully rebuild my engine 90bhp, or buy a low miler from tam on SSC (mk2) and then use that for turbo conversion, if i didn't end up going with turbo conv, then i'd be buying a low miler vts from tam instead and keeping it N/A, but i'd prefer to do turbo conv so i'm different from the other 100's of saxo's you see in my town, plus i like the saxo nice sports hatch car, but would also love a turbo'd car although things like R5's punto GT's etc are all quite ugly, R5's are nice but heard many bad things about there saftey. But yes i know that mk2's require sigcon due to it having the "newer ECU", im currently bidding on hardcoresax's bits on ebay all bar the supercharger and says in auction all/most can be used for a turbo meaning only things id need are manifold, turbo, downpipe and uprated clutch and 1 or 2 small things. Just only concern is like i said the mk2 cat uses two lambda sensors and thought that could be a problem for MOT's etc

20th September 2006, 13:35

Turbo conversion can run with just a 5th injector right?? i know for the bigger boost setups people use 5th and 6th but im going to start with a low boost setup to start with 5/6psi maybe?

20th September 2006, 13:42

just use 1 bigger injector, yes they can run on five, im sourcing all the parts to turbo mine at the momnet, few more weeks and ill start making up my manifold as im on an evening welding and fabrication course, and then get ready to spend loads of money lol

20th September 2006, 13:43

Well you will need to get a manifold/downpipe made anyways so you can have as many lambda points put in as u like ( i had 3, One for ECU, one for AFR and one for EGT)

List of things you will need that are not in Ed's kit......

Modified Sump (Oil return)
Turbo Manifold
Turbo
Downpipe
Exhaust
Some different boost pipes as the turbo will be positioned differently
Uprated Clutch
2 x Copper head gaskets or decompression plate

And then it depends how much boost you want to run as to what else u need.....

If you want help sortin it, i don't mind pointin you in the right direction

20th September 2006, 13:44

Yes just the 5th injector, i ran 2 but then my spec was HUGE!!!

20th September 2006, 13:47

yeah forgot to add the headgaskets

knew about the rest of it though. What sort of clutch im looking at heard helix are best for around town driving?? Could you show me a site maybe that would be best? but keep in mind only wanting to run 5/6psi to start with so that will be around 130 @ the wheels roughly im guessing? Also going to go with a T2 turbo aswell, which will need to be sourced from an R5 for RST im guessing, but wondered if i should buy a nackered one then buy the turbo servicing pack from ebay for £75 to keep cost down, and i beleive the kit replaces everything like oil seals, bearing etc

20th September 2006, 14:06

Yea Helix is your best bet by far, personally i'd try and find a low mileage or recently refurbed turbo. T2 will be ideal if running low boost as it will come in nice and early. Carworx will provide the Helix for you and they are around £375 iirc.

20th September 2006, 14:10

lol ok then guessing none of the helix sport clutches from demon tweeks are any good then lol

, as they were the ones i looked at a while ago, but didn't think they were the right ones due to only being £175 i think compared to £375

20th September 2006, 14:13

LOL no u need the cover, pressure plate and release bearing

20th September 2006, 14:13

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/helix-106-gti-...QQcmdZViewItem

20th September 2006, 14:17

Yea thats the jobbie but you need an AP release bearing an the cover to go with it

20th September 2006, 14:18

Wouldnt a cover of a normal clutch work?

20th September 2006, 14:18

so the 375 includes all of that?

20th September 2006, 14:20

Yes it does, i will get a definate for you now

I'll also find out how much for the cover and bearing seperate so u can buy that clutch plate..........

20th September 2006, 14:23

oh right ok, was going to say don't go to so much trouble, as this will be an on going project of mine you see, piecing the bits together etc then begin the conversion, due to only having so much spare cash to get bits at a time you see

20th September 2006, 14:24

You work for carworx sommer?

20th September 2006, 14:27

I know Oli, it only took a second to fire off the email anyways

No Ash but i very nearly did and I don't mind helping them out from time to time

20th September 2006, 14:28

if u want low boost u could modify the standard manifodl with an adapter plate to fit a t2 on, or kkk or whatever, ive heard of people using kkk's off 306 diesels as they are cheap from the scrappy.

then comes the matter or the piping and the fueling etc as thats expensive but you would have saved a few 100 by using the standard manifold

20th September 2006, 15:00

only thing is now im trying to price up some stuff in my head, either way im going to either have a new low miler put in, or my engine fully rebuilt, but im trying to think which would be cheaper, engine from tam would be say around £970 including gearbox, engine, new clutch fitting, and also labour for fitting new engine, or would it be cheaper to just have a full engine rebuild of my current engine and get a another gearbox (low miles), and would a mk1 engine work out better/ less hassle for the turbo conversion itself??

20th September 2006, 15:31

Why rebuild your current one even? hes it done 10 millions miles or something?

20th September 2006, 15:41

use the 1 u have in it now, if it breaks then fix it, saves money, there aint much ud have to change only to compression onto a new engine and if u aint goin with forgies then that aint hard at all, so the rest u can bolt on after

20th September 2006, 15:46

current engine coming upto 100K plus gearbox is abit crap crunches etc and think clutch could be on its way out anyways, and car didn't have much service history so don't know how well its been treated etc

20th September 2006, 15:48

how hard do you think the conversion would actually be?? would get help from my dad due to him bein an ex mechanic, but never done a turbo conversion on a car, im guessing its just basically plugging stuff into the correct place for the parts, but then fueling would need to be changed via the mf2??

20th September 2006, 15:50

If you was going to all the fuss of takin out the standard lump and tryin to bolt on any old Turbocharger in your back garden then I still stand by my original post . . .

You'd have to be mad!

If you read through all the ups and downs of Simo's Turbo'd VTS you would think twice about doin it yourself (and he used quite well established companies and still had problems)

Also think you need more than a copy of a Haynes manual and a Blow tourch

Some of you may well be a good mechanic's but still think you'd be silly to mess around with turbo's with out proper experience IMO

Don't get me wrong Im not lookin to upset anyone

20th September 2006, 15:57

Befor you even think about doing the converion try and get some insurance quotes because at 18, insuring a turbo'd vtr would cost you quite a bit

20th September 2006, 16:00

yep, quote from adrian flux was £1125, that will be for when im 19, just under 2 years drivin experience, 1 yrs ncb and parent on policy to bring it down that extra bit.

20th September 2006, 16:08

kool should be even cheap for me then as i got 2 yrs no claims and im 20 in december

20th September 2006, 16:14

thats 3rd party though, if all went a head then 2nd year of running it i would then do fully comp

20th September 2006, 16:29

To be honest IMO just bung in the head gaskets and run with it, mine ran 1.2 BAR of boost (19psi) with just gaskets and had done 70 odd thou so i wouldnt be concerned the 8v block is pretty much bullet proof compared with the 16v. I'd deffo get a newer box though and maybe even consider a VTS box to gain some more acceleration while at it

As for the MF2 get some one like Carworx to map it for you as it isnt easy to do and you need at least an AFR and some knowledge of them.

20th September 2006, 16:31

16 valve block isn't that weedy either...

20th September 2006, 16:32

guessing to map the mf2 you'd just take note of what the AFR is telling you and preferably stop it from running to rich or too lean

20th September 2006, 16:38

We ran mine Rich as its safer when on stock internals.... Lean is BAD

Dave agreed but the 8v is stronger internally without having to go forged etc straight away

20th September 2006, 16:42

so its better to run slightly rich?? wouldn't that over fuel the car though??

20th September 2006, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somers

We ran mine Rich as its safer when on stock internals.... Lean is BAD

Dave agreed but the 8v is stronger internally without having to go forged etc straight away

hmmm, debatable as the 16v will produce more power at lower boost, anyway, its a dull argument so I'll leave it!

20th September 2006, 16:50

Rich = more air than gadd
Lean = more gass than air?

20th September 2006, 16:52

yeah i wasn't too sure which way round it was, but could be wrong and is probably more air lol rather than fuel lol

20th September 2006, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxoash

Rich = more air than gadd
Lean = more gass than air?

Wrong way round.

Running rich will loose you a bit of power and make the car less economical.

Running lean will increase combustion tempritures and blow the thing up

Neither is good, however running it a touch rich gives you a bit of a safety margin. Ideal would be to run it perfectly, though that can be hard to manage on an NA car, never mind forced induction

20th September 2006, 16:54

Dave has it spot on and mine ran rich to save the pistons

20th September 2006, 16:56

yeah just relsied i put thme wrong way round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somers

Dave has it spot on and mine ran rich to save the pistons

Good little bit of knowladge that sommer

20th September 2006, 17:00

woo was right then lol couldnt remember which way round it was

20th September 2006, 17:02

Mine ran lean on the way to Germany, white sparkplugs and 39mpg!

20th September 2006, 17:27

LOL mine ran rich and about 8mpg round Silverstone last year

20th September 2006, 17:37

all this talk is wetting my appitite for a blower - thats a turbo for you sick minded individuals...! new engine is on the cards as im on 125k.... think ill be calling cituning for a price on the kit... or are carworx better!?

20th September 2006, 17:45

carworx are better, cituning have problem with there fueling of there system from what ive read in the past

20th September 2006, 18:36

best contact number? looking at the pic of that turbo kit doesnt look must at all!! i got mocal already.

20th September 2006, 18:49

www.carworx.net has contact number on there and prices for there kits aswell

20th September 2006, 20:17

So in all fairness is the cituning kit any good if some

one was wanting to get a local garage to do the fitting

rather than traveling to a company like carworx?

21st September 2006, 09:18

Personally I wouldn't touch the Cituning kit but hey thats just me LOL
I also wouldnt rely on a local garage to blow up my engine while mapping the mf2 wrong

21st September 2006, 09:28

ditto wouldnt touch the cituning one with a long pole

21st September 2006, 09:45

Carworx are very experianced and offer superb customer service, one of the few "motorsport tuners" I'd let near my car

21st September 2006, 18:49

Mates,how many hp or psi would standart pistons on vts engine run with turbo setup?

23rd September 2006, 14:57

I ran 1.2 Bar on standard pistons, lowering the CR with gaskets

23rd September 2006, 19:07

Thx,thats on vts engine?With 2 or 3 gaskets?