Cams Again (sorry)

23rd October 2006, 11:26

Now that I have some Cat Cams 708s on the way I thought it wise to equip myself with some knowledge on the subject and hopefully rule out some of the myths surrounding them.

So here are a load of questions

How long can you run the cams without a remap and are the any problems with this, I have heard people say you cant go over 3.5k unless remapped but dont know how true it is????

Would it be good practice to change the cam belt for a piper/kent one or is this just a waste of money?

Is there anything else that I should change when fitting the cams?

Any other general bits of advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Steve

23rd October 2006, 11:41

You should definatly change the cambelt, I thnik GMC do a competition cambelt for about £20, I dont spose Kent or Piper would be much different so deffinatly worth changing

EDIT: Dont cams perform there best over 3500 revs?

23rd October 2006, 11:45

citroen cambelt is fine, just replace it but no harm in using piper or owt.

Un mapped cams will be running as lean as fuck above 3.5k thats why its not advised

23rd October 2006, 12:09

though many people have run them for 20+k and been fine, I'djust get it done

23rd October 2006, 12:10

I was going to replace the cambelt I just didn't know if it was worthwhile getting the "performance" one.

I think I'll wait untill I get it mapped before fitting them if there;s a chance it'll cause me problems.

Cheers lads.

Steve

23rd October 2006, 15:04

best to, Keir's car made 1bhp more on pt51s than it did standard before it was mapped. I'd rather have standard

23rd October 2006, 15:23

I hope your writing all this down Steve, cus iv got pages of questions to ask you

Your a few months a head of me atm though

You wont be getting off lightly either David

23rd October 2006, 15:24

I think I can live without 1bhp untill I can afford the remap.

23rd October 2006, 15:28

May end up flogging my cams off if I can't get my ECU back!

23rd October 2006, 15:57

GUTTED!!!

Cant you get a standalone and get a base map off one of your contacts? Thats surely a better option than ditching the cams.

23rd October 2006, 15:58

mate it will be ok driving it unmapped. i drove mine unmapped for over 6 month, 2 track days and 1 1/4mile day so its so the readline a lot

i would change belt and oil seals. if you car is highish miileage though i would do a full belt kit inc water pump and also head gasket, as once the timings been set properly you dont want to touch/adjust/alter it. i spent £300 on service parts before mine was mapped so i knew it was in mint condition and wouldnt need to be stripped anytime soon.

23rd October 2006, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ets2k9

GUTTED!!!

Cant you get a standalone and get a base map off one of your contacts? Thats surely a better option than ditching the cams.

Looking into that but its $$$$$$$$$$

23rd October 2006, 16:00

dave, if you get a new ecu why dont you just get wayne to swap the eprom over?

23rd October 2006, 16:32

Williams the engine only has 25k on it so it should be ok but I will give it the once over before putting it all back together.

23rd October 2006, 16:52

williamsvts did u notice an increase in power before u had the remap?

23rd October 2006, 16:55

thats what im doin mate. gettin em fitted for £65 at the local garage and then gettin it remapped after x-mas when i got some x-mas cash $$$ ch, ching!

23rd October 2006, 16:57

David - Do you think its the curse of the 3 plug ecu?

I have been told to avoid VTSs with them if looking to fit cams.

I test drove a cammed VTS with a 3 plug ECU and wasnt impressed tbh.

23rd October 2006, 17:09

Quote:

I test drove a cammed VTS with a 3 plug ECU and wasnt impressed tbh.

That unusual as everyone I've spoken to with cams tells me there's a real difference and how good it is etc....I think the 3 plugs only loose a couple of bhp compared to the single though so its shouldn't be that devasting.

Mystic - I'm keeping notes

Spencer - are you going to chipwizards?

23rd October 2006, 17:37

no i spoke to the garage that is gonna fit the cams. i know him and he reccommended the garage in leicester! £350 for the re-map. he said they do no end of saxos and 106's and know what they are doing with them. he said that its the big powered cars that they arnt too goo with. he said he has MOT'd a few n/a saxo's with +160bhp from there! so im looking forward to seeing what they can produce from my pride and joy

23rd October 2006, 17:45

Mine failed because some clot droped the bonnet stay through the fuse box and it earthed out the ECU, frying it to shit. Mine always passes its MOT on emisions and I fail to see how the 3 plugs can be any slower, mines rolling roaded at 163bhp, which is a bit high IMO but thats the highest anyones got from them

23rd October 2006, 17:46

just curious;
VTS cams for example...
pt51's + remap and fitting, got a rough cost?

23rd October 2006, 17:55

you got a port & polished head campdavid?

23rd October 2006, 18:56

williamsvts did u notice an increase in power before u had the remap?

slightly, not much though. was about 182 pace.

pt51's + remap and fitting, got a rough cost

prob about £1200 if you go to a garage.

23rd October 2006, 19:01

so u got the cams glad to help out

23rd October 2006, 19:11

O yeah there on the way!!!

I cant wait but I cant afford the remap as of yet.

However they were such a good price it'd be rude not to take them.

Thanks once again.

23rd October 2006, 19:13

No prob mate

23rd October 2006, 19:17

still fit them before you get it mapped imo.

then they will be ran in for a thrashing on the rollers

23rd October 2006, 19:18

You might have a point Williams but what about all this running leen business etc..

23rd October 2006, 19:20

mine ran for 6 months with standard map and no probs, you could fit a 3.5 bar fpr from a vtr aswell.

you could also say what about ragging it without them being ran in though.

23rd October 2006, 19:23

You have another good point

Tell me more about the FPR?

23rd October 2006, 19:25

the vts is 3 bar, so a higher pressure fpr should put a bit more fuel in, which wil stop it runing as lean high up

23rd October 2006, 19:28

Ok I'm still pretending I know about the FPR things so where and how much?

23rd October 2006, 19:32

Fuel Presssure Reglator. from the top of the fuel tank on a mk1 vtr. free if you can nick it from a breakers

23rd October 2006, 19:34

No need I already have one the only thing vts about mine is the engine and wheels.

Just for the record I guessed FPR = Fuel Pressure Regulator.

23rd October 2006, 19:37

oh well, all is good then

just whack them in when you get them and give the timing a tweak to get it to idle.

23rd October 2006, 19:41

Yeah I'm looking forward to the idling apparently thats a bitch.

23rd October 2006, 19:45

nah, mine and all teh 708s ive fitted idled spot on. just retard inlet and advance exhaust.

23rd October 2006, 19:49

Will do, cheers for you help I'd rep you if I could.

23rd October 2006, 21:48

well done, bout time, lol. how much?

23rd October 2006, 22:35

im 157bhp with 109,567miles on clock beat that

23rd October 2006, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavo-vts

im 157bhp with 109,567miles on clock beat that

very constructive post

you're my new hero:thumbup:

23rd October 2006, 23:56

what you should do is bung the cam in and just remap the ecu to its best just try not to make it have to much valve overlap (both valves open same time)

24th October 2006, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobster

what you should do is bung the cam in and just remap the ecu to its best just try not to make it have to much valve overlap (both valves open same time)

Isnt that when you get the fuel pissing out of the exhuast?

24th October 2006, 09:13

Bullit - The cams were £200 with only 300 miles use and I'll get it remapped properly after Xmas.

I only have 25k on the clock so your the winner! (Who ever said about 157bhp and a million miles.)

24th October 2006, 09:25

im 157bhp with 109,567miles on clock beat that

neil H on ssc has over 110k and 161hp

what you should do is bung the cam in and just remap the ecu to its best just try not to make it have to much valve overlap (both valves open same time)

??? who told you that? n/a cars with wild cams have valve overlap.

24th October 2006, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

im 157bhp with 109,567miles on clock beat that

neil H on ssc has over 110k and 161hp

what you should do is bung the cam in and just remap the ecu to its best just try not to make it have to much valve overlap (both valves open same time)

??? who told you that? n/a cars with wild cams have valve overlap.

He also set the fastest time by about a mile at Kames. I drove his car, it felt as nice as mine, maybe a bit quicker (lighter and my lambda sensor was arsing up at the time)

Shame it did its headgasket at 111k. Something to look forward to Mr 109,567miles

24th October 2006, 09:54

lighter and my lambda sensor was arsing up at the time

i will try that excuse next year aswell

i was impressed with his driving!!!!!

24th October 2006, 19:55

good show

10th November 2006, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

He also set the fastest time by about a mile at Kames. I drove his car, it felt as nice as mine, maybe a bit quicker (lighter and my lambda sensor was arsing up at the time)

Shame it did its headgasket at 111k. Something to look forward to Mr 109,567miles

I still don't know how I managed fastest time considering my spec compared to the opposition lol.

Yours was very nice to drive, brakes felt AWESOME! Shame there was too much weight in it to compare acceleration. I've no doubt these pt51/708 spec engines will pretty much be identical in performance.

Still haven't sorted HG, the poor thing is rotting away on my driveway.

10th November 2006, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil_H

I still don't know how I managed fastest time considering my spec compared to the opposition lol.

Yours was very nice to drive, brakes felt AWESOME! Shame there was too much weight in it to compare acceleration. I've no doubt these pt51/708 spec engines will pretty much be identical in performance.

Still haven't sorted HG, the poor thing is rotting away on my driveway.

Mines coming back from the dead, just needs its ECU sorting and then its back in the act. Thinking of stripping it hardcore again. If my insurance allowed a cage I certainly would. Also thinking of going back to standard, just with cams and a decat on the engine side. Stealthy bitch!

10th November 2006, 12:14

You were faster Neil as your brakes were shit, forcing massive cornering speeds. I have something up my sleave to thwart you next year though.....

10th November 2006, 12:23

Are you sticking with your remapped ECU (is it repairable) or are you going for something like a KMS jobbie etc?

Do you mean getting rid of your suspension too if you go back to semi standard?

I'd say strip it, but you're still using it as your daily runner aren't you?

ROLF @ that pic

:

10th November 2006, 12:25

Its a daily car. Its actually getting to the point where I'm thinking of fecking the whole thing off (though that will take months, unless anyone wants to give me £5250 for it

) Its a great car but daily drive is getting me down.

ECU is away being repaired, its repairable, just taking them FOREVER

10th November 2006, 12:46

Well I hope you don't get rid Dave, would be a shame as it's a brilliant spec'd vts. Who's repairing the ECU mate, Chipwizards?

10th November 2006, 13:32

No, its a 3rd party company used by Carworx

11th November 2006, 22:27

dave - is it the lad near me that is repairing it? he seems to know his shit.