Back end slides very easily in the wet!

18th December 2006, 22:39

Hi all, about three months ago I got Bilstein shockers and springs fitted to my car. Before I had these fitted my car was just lowered on Gmax springs and the rear tosion bar adjusted to suit. Since I've had the Bilsteins on though, the car does handle better and looks alot better. The only problem is that when I go round some corners, roundabouts,etc the back end has a tendancy to slide, and is sometimes quite dangerous, especially when the roads are wet. I dont even to going that fast either, for example I went to my local Asda store the other day and as I turned into the car park I went round a corner doing about 10-15 mph if that and the back end decided to step out. Is there anything I can do to stop/improve this, or is it something I'll just have to live with.

Any info would be great cheers Tom

18th December 2006, 22:44

When you got it lowered did you get the break bias valve adjusted? if not do a search for break bias valve, that might help

18th December 2006, 22:44

shove 2 fat lasses in the back and it should be fine lol

nah just learn to control it thats all

18th December 2006, 22:48

That would just make it worse and there would be the extra costs of transporting the fat people lol!!

18th December 2006, 22:53

how much is it lowered? bias valve would only affect it if you were braking and depending on the year of vts it might not even have one. if you're quite low or you've lowered it to match the front ie the rear isnt slightly higher than the front, then this will most likely be the problem.

18th December 2006, 23:11

Its pretty level to be honest, think its lowered 55-60mm. Dont think its the bias valve, because the car remains straight under heavy breaking which is something my old vtr didnt do before i adjusted it.

18th December 2006, 23:18

if the back is lower than the front, even by a few mm surely this will cause the back end to slide, 60mm is pretty low! what size wheels have you got on mate?

18th December 2006, 23:27

here is a pic of a brake bias valve but in htis pic the spring has been removed.

here is another pic

part number 3 is what u need to adjust, wind it out to make the rear brakes have less braking pressure and vice versa do it up for more rear brake pressure.

18th December 2006, 23:28

oh and make sure u spray loads fo wd40 on it 30mins before u try adjust it as these are common to brake so free it up with some solvents first

18th December 2006, 23:30

Just the standard vts rims on it got some pics of it but dont know how to post them on. I'd say the front is lower than the back...The tosion bar was originally lowered one notch...When I had the Bilsteins fitted the car sat perfectly, so there was no ned to re-adjust it. The ride is pretty firm and there is hardly any roll, so it just slides instead. I was talking to a mate who had a spax kit on a 206 the other day and he said he experienced the same problem.

18th December 2006, 23:33

maybe you have upset the geomitry of the vehicle, take it in and get it a allignment check they will then where possible adjsut the camber, caster, & toe settings all to suit the car at its new ride height

18th December 2006, 23:48

Okay will do cheers

19th December 2006, 01:22

you could have bought cheap gay tyres for it???

19th December 2006, 02:51

The tosion bar was originally lowered one notch...

this could be your problem, incorrectly lowered torsion bar..
also check the tyre pressures. ive got a very very slow puncture in one of my rear tyres and if i dont top it up with after 2-3 weeks the rear slides out like mad.

19th December 2006, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

you could have bought cheap gay tyres for it???

bet me to it!

i used to have some federals on the back of my saxo and it slid out like f**k, even when dry. then the Poilets got put on and its made a massive difference

19th December 2006, 08:45

This happens ALOT to my standard VTS but i have it down to cheap tyres mainly does it in the wet. Going to get some good tyres when i fit me spax psx kit in jan. What tyres do you have on the car?

19th December 2006, 08:46

I suspect that its down to braking on a corner upsetting the balance of the car, worn / rubbish / overinflated tyres. Or just not being aware of changing road conditions.

It won't be the brake bias valve as that would cause the rear end to lock up under even normal braking.

19th December 2006, 08:55

My advice is if its lowered 60mm all round lower the back a bit more, I had a VTR before me VTS lowered 35mm all round and the back end twitched pretty bad, now I have me vts 80mm front 100mm rear and the back is locked

19th December 2006, 09:00

I was going to say 'cheap tyres'
55mm to 60mm is also very low and wont do much for the best handling you
may also find.

19th December 2006, 09:14

Here's a list

1.Tyres. Either shit rubber or more worn/older on the front. It could be that you have a tyre that doesn't like greasy conditions. My Bridgestone 720s have been the wrong side of wank for the passed few weeks, Toyo T1s's have the same problem. I would recomend a pair of Goodyear Eagle F1s for the back. They aren't the hardest wearing tyre but they are grippy in all conditions and very predictable, ideal for the back end of any car

2. Incorrect lowering. I must confess I have no idea how to lower the back of a car other than the sensible "right" way, so I haven't a clue about all this spleans shit. But to be it sounds like its the wrong way because it leaves the torsion bar compressed, making the bar harder and reducing movement. Get the bars out and get it done properly

3. Snapped bias valve. Unlikely but it could have snapped, meaning to much braking at the front, loading the car up for corners. This happened on mine at it made it a bit frisky

4. Poor supension setup. Get some better springs and don't have it dropped so low, 55mm is a bit unpredictable from experience!

Hope that helps

19th December 2006, 09:56

In Camp, we trust!

20th December 2006, 19:03

Just been out to have a look at the tyres, they've both got loads of tread on, one's an avon and the other is a Michelin. I've never replaced the back tyres so I guess the previous owner must have put them on. I recently put a set of Continentals on the front which don't seem to be too bad. Anyway thanks for your comments, its given me a few ideas as to what is possibly causing the problem.

22nd December 2006, 18:09

I'd personally keep tyres in pairs and never have 2 different manufacturers on the left and right

22nd December 2006, 18:40

the brake bais (i think is what its called) that ajusts the brake balance on front and rear is behind the rear wheel somewhere is set to high on rear so if you brake it will slide.......but i dont know because......

22nd December 2006, 20:10

sounds like brake bias

the cars been lowered yes?

adjust it

22nd December 2006, 21:04

how can it be the bias valve? when he has said that it just comes out, if it does it when its not braking then it must be something to do with the set-up.

22nd December 2006, 23:11

ok then its not level check sus level and wheel balance

23rd December 2006, 08:03

Not the brake bias! he would have to be breaking whilst turning the corner for it to be this!

and it wont be the torsion bar. reference to splines is gust an easy was of describing the procedure. untill you do it yourself you wont know. it doesnt preload the torsion either

23rd December 2006, 10:19

brake bias and the way its been lowered are somewhat a red herring I feel.

If the symptoms are just when cornering and even when there is no braking input then it is usually a tyre problem or due to driver input

23rd December 2006, 10:24

my back end comes out if i go round corner hard on brakes, but not when not braking, which is what his is doing, He hasnt put that he is slamming on and cornering as you just dont do that!
so must be what kamracing has seadm tyre problem or driver input.......

23rd December 2006, 10:49

lads its just a saxo thing! they are so light! all the weight is onn the front end and the back is really light!. yer tyres are also a factor but in the wet when the roads are greasy its the same for everyone!

23rd December 2006, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnno

how can it be the bias valve? when he has said that it just comes out, if it does it when its not braking then it must be something to do with the set-up.

damm good point

23rd December 2006, 11:16

seriously for it to step out at a claimed 15mph there must be very little friction between the tyre and road. The tyres must be crud.

23rd December 2006, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

seriously for it to step out at a claimed 15mph there must be very little friction between the tyre and road. The tyres must be crud.

Exactly, fuck no's why everyones saying bias valve as thats only when braking, The rears to low or shiet tyres, and if your tyres have plenty of tread and the rear isnt too low its a saxo thing

23rd December 2006, 17:43

its not a saxo thing at all...

23rd December 2006, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

its not a saxo thing at all...

Ok ill rephrase it, any light front engined car in the wet

23rd December 2006, 19:44

have you stripped all the stuff out the back?

24th December 2006, 20:33

As couple of people said, i doubt it has got anything to do with bias valve because i'm not braking, the occasion i mentioned as asda is probably just a poor road service that when wet is quite slippery. Tyres are again another possiblity, and would be better to have two of the same branded tyres on the back, but ill wait until there getting low as ive got a few other jobs/plans on before a getting a new set of tyres. Cheers guys

31st December 2006, 14:44

When experimenting with the handling with many front engine, front drive cars, ive found that if you want to go fast and keep the back in line, then you have got to be smooth, but if you want to have a bit of fun drifting and getting the back end out, just be rough and chuck it into the corners. Also ive found that saxos suffer from lift off oversteer, which can be huge fun.

31st December 2006, 15:09

tyre pressures correct, my mate had this problem not so bad mind, found out he never ever checked the tyre pressures