More modern engine conversions?

1. vtr_driver Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Consett Co.Durham Posts: 1126 2000 Ph2 VTR

   #1 23rd December 2006, 08:16

   Thinking about newer engines that have come out in more recent Citroens/Pug's
   
   Will the C2 VTS engine go in a Saxo. It has 125bhp doesn't it??
   
   How about the engine in the new 207GT its a 1.6 turbo. Are these engines based on the same (TU??) engines that the VTR and VTS have or are they completely different?
   
   Would they fit?
2. smartgavin Frequent Poster Joined: Jul 2006 Pittenweem(Fife) or Glasgow Posts: 529 Saxo 1.1

   #2 23rd December 2006, 09:48

   Engine section? probably get a better answer there..
   
   With enough money almost any engine will fit, theres the Zcars people that will put bike engines into saxos and that other place that does the Vtec conversions....
3. ets2k9 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Hednesford, West Mids Posts: 6230 Seat Leon Cupra R

   #3 23rd December 2006, 10:02

   The c2 can go in the saxo and the new 207GT engine would be expensive if you were to find one.
4. vtr_driver Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Consett Co.Durham Posts: 1126 2000 Ph2 VTR

   #4 23rd December 2006, 10:02

   Could anyone move it over or shall I start a new thread over there??
   
   Yeah I realise that engines can bee put in the back with spasse frames etc.
   
   I'm just thinking about easier conversions. Something that goes pretty much straight in without faffing about.
5. vtr_driver Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Consett Co.Durham Posts: 1126 2000 Ph2 VTR

   #5 23rd December 2006, 10:04

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by ets2k9 The c2 can go in the saxo and the new 207GT engine would be expensive if you were to find one.

   What makes the C2 5bhp more powerful than a Saxo VTS engine??
   
   Yeah I doubt it would be cheap but it'd be a good conversion if it was possible and very tuneable I would imagine. Prolly the conversion of the future.
6. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #6 23rd December 2006, 10:12

   it has bigger valves for starters but just consider it the same engine with very small tweaks. Not worth getting the full engine for 5bhp. Just use the head
7. vtr_driver Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Consett Co.Durham Posts: 1126 2000 Ph2 VTR

   #7 23rd December 2006, 10:14

   Hmmm not even if I was going to be converting to another engine anyway?? E.G taking the engine out of my VTR?
8. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

   #8 23rd December 2006, 10:21

   i have heard of people dropping a C2 engine into their saxo before, on a couple of occasions actually, but im not sure if any 'extra' work was needed to make the baby fit snug under the bonnet! they will deffinately fit though!
9. vtr_driver Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Consett Co.Durham Posts: 1126 2000 Ph2 VTR

   #9 23rd December 2006, 13:20

   Also why has the C2/C3 GT/VTR only got 110 from the same 1.6 16V?
10. rey Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Kent Posts: 8205 :(s)rac

    #10 23rd December 2006, 13:24

    207GT engine is a diesel!! performance isnt too hot
11. vtr_driver Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Consett Co.Durham Posts: 1126 2000 Ph2 VTR

    #11 23rd December 2006, 13:25

    Ur jokin I though it was a petrol! Oh well that sucks LOL
12. SteVTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2005 carlisle United Kingdom (England) Posts: 2934 106 GTi

    #12 23rd December 2006, 13:27

    nothing wrong with diesel engines look at the golf gti tdi it flies quite a few manufacturers are using diesles in performance cars now but as for the 207 gt its wank i'd avoid it like the plague
13. rey Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Kent Posts: 8205 :(s)rac

    #13 23rd December 2006, 13:31

    yeah i wasn't dissin' diesels, was just saying the 207's engine is crap!
14. vtr_driver Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Consett Co.Durham Posts: 1126 2000 Ph2 VTR

    #14 23rd December 2006, 13:32

    Are you sure its diesel. I'm talkin bout the 1.6 turbo thats been co-built with BMW
    
    This:
    
    
15. SteVTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2005 carlisle United Kingdom (England) Posts: 2934 106 GTi

    #15 23rd December 2006, 13:32

    not just the engine the whole car is shite puegeot have seriously lost the plot
16. rey Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Kent Posts: 8205 :(s)rac

    #16 23rd December 2006, 13:33

    no its diesel, was in last months lax flower
    
    peugeot are doing something wierd, must be something in the water!
17. vtr_driver Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Consett Co.Durham Posts: 1126 2000 Ph2 VTR

    #17 23rd December 2006, 13:44

    So they're doing a 110bhp HDI a 150bhp HDI and then there's gunna be a more powerful version in the GTI next year!!
18. Colin Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2006 Banbury Posts: 4623 Saxo Rally Car Evo 6

    #18 23rd December 2006, 14:17

    Hmm. Interesting thread.
    
    Diesels are becoming very popular to tune. Just look at the Audi R8 diesel that won Le Mans.
19. ets2k9 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Hednesford, West Mids Posts: 6230 Seat Leon Cupra R

    #19 23rd December 2006, 14:18

    Diesel engines are the future (apparently) they respond better to tuning.
20. SteVTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2005 carlisle United Kingdom (England) Posts: 2934 106 GTi

    #20 23rd December 2006, 14:23

    its all about the torque
    
    torque makes a car quick
    bhp sells a car
21. Colin Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2006 Banbury Posts: 4623 Saxo Rally Car Evo 6

    #21 23rd December 2006, 14:33

    Exactly. BHP figures are wank really. Just for pub talk or people who read AutoCar.
    
    Torque is where it is at!
22. vtr_driver Established Member Joined: Aug 2006 Consett Co.Durham Posts: 1126 2000 Ph2 VTR

    #22 23rd December 2006, 14:41

    Yup tourque is what you need day to day power is generally at high RPM which is never used. Thats where diesels excel because of the tourque.
    
    Anyone know if the 1.6 hdi would fit in a saxo/106? (Thoughts of very quick series 1 106 diesel are now formulating)
23. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

    #23 23rd December 2006, 15:02

    my dads A6 3.0TDI is torquey as fuck! it feels much faster than his SLK 350 tbh, but its just because you feel the torque so much more from a diesel engine!
24. Scottp Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Glasgow United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 26097 Chelski Traktor

    #24 23rd December 2006, 15:43

    207 gt does comes in 1.6 turbo 150bhp petrol variety.
25. lavo-vts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2006 derbyshire Posts: 3515 mk1 vts (ETW Mercury Grey)

    #25 23rd December 2006, 16:21

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rey 207GT engine is a diesel!! performance isnt too hot

    its petrol. its a brand new bmw engine out of the new mini cooper
26. Scottp Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Glasgow United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 26097 Chelski Traktor

    #26 23rd December 2006, 16:36

    its not a bmw engine, PSA developed it with BMW for the new mini hence why its appearing in teh new 207 as well. New 207 gti uses a 180/5 version of it apparently
27. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

    #27 23rd December 2006, 17:05

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by vtr_driver Also why has the C2/C3 GT/VTR only got 110 from the same 1.6 16V?

    milder cam profile I think
28. Colin Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2006 Banbury Posts: 4623 Saxo Rally Car Evo 6

    #28 23rd December 2006, 17:07

    And different throttle body.
29. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

    #29 23rd December 2006, 17:11

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by vtr_driver Anyone know if the 1.6 hdi would fit in a saxo/106? (Thoughts of very quick series 1 106 diesel are now formulating)

    Looking seriously into it in 2008 dude.
    
    I'd think the 1.6 HDI might be too big/heavy though. even though in standard form it produces 110bhp. or 140bhp superchiped (+£500 - bargin)
    
    They do a 1.4 16v which produces 92bhp standard, again superchipping would see over 115bhp.
    
    anyway...
    
    peugeots.. wtf is going on with them... there isnt a single car in their current line i like.
30. Colin Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2006 Banbury Posts: 4623 Saxo Rally Car Evo 6

    #30 23rd December 2006, 17:13

    Turbo cars respond well to Superchips. I think they just up the boost slightly.
31. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

    #31 23rd December 2006, 17:14

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ColSax Turbo cars respond well to Superchips. I think they just up the boost slightly.

    and piss about with the ignition timings too
32. Mcsvtr Regular Poster Joined: Oct 2006 Limerick, Ireland Posts: 268 R33 Skyline 2.5 GTS-T

    #32 23rd December 2006, 18:11

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SteVTR not just the engine the whole car is shite puegeot have seriously lost the plot

    i wouldnt agree. me granda has a 407 1.4 d, its a 1.4 and its diesel, its a miser on juice, peugeot/citroen made ok diesel engines in the past, ie berlingo and partner sold like hotbuns over here and are very common. Thats for a reason
33. SteVTR Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2005 carlisle United Kingdom (England) Posts: 2934 106 GTi

    #33 24th December 2006, 10:27

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mcsvtr i wouldnt agree. me granda has a 407 1.4 d, its a 1.4 and its diesel, its a miser on juice, peugeot/citroen made ok diesel engines in the past, ie berlingo and partner sold like hotbuns over here and are very common. Thats for a reason

    
    wasnt slating diesels when i said that mate i was slating peugeot in general for copping out and building middle of the road pissy warm hatches like most companies are doing thesedays
    
    the 150 bhp turbo 207 gt is built to compete with the likes of the mini cooper and the fiesta st both of which are cheaper than the 207 and the fiesta is quicker than it.also both the mini and the fiesta are nicer looking cars and imo have a nicer interior
    
    and when they bring the 27 gti out it'll be up against the cars like the 197 clio so it'll probally flop aswell
34. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

    #34 24th December 2006, 10:34

    true. the PSA range of engines are up their among the best and they have a huge wealth of engineering talent. Just somehow when they come to designing the chassis it's as they go 'how can we make this proper shite???'
35. R4T Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4630

    #35 24th December 2006, 10:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SteVTR nothing wrong with diesel engines look at the golf gti tdi it flies quite a few manufacturers are using diesles in performance cars now but as for the 207 gt its wank i'd avoid it like the plague

    i agree the golf tdi is a flier,my ex's mum has 1 with a amd chip what a mega difference it makes cudnt believe it!!!
36. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #36 24th December 2006, 13:19

    sorry lads bit of a hijack but with the two vts engines being very similar does anyone know if the throttlebody one each angine is the same?
    
    please reply ye olde saxo gods!
37. hesslevtr Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: May 2004 Hull (England) Posts: 18709 1.6 vtr

    #37 24th December 2006, 13:23

    i thought the only made 1 vts engine
    
    was vtr what the changed
38. saxoash Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2005 East Yorkshire United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6169 VTR

    #38 24th December 2006, 13:34

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hesslevtr i thought the only made 1 vts engine was vtr what the changed

    He on about the saxo vts and the c2 vts engines.
    
    No i read somewhere that there different and i dont think you can swap the throttle boddie over between saxo and c2, Not a straight swap anyway
39. Sean Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2005 St Andrews United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 7384 Green mk1 vtr/s and Focus zetec

    #39 24th December 2006, 13:50

    c2 vts and saxo vts 'bodies are different, c2 vts is a bsi unit, so when doing c2 vts engine into a saxo the saxo 'body is used but is the head has to be redrilled and tapped to accept it as the bolts dont line up.
40. spencer_cammedvts Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Nov 2005 MEASHAM United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3445 257bhp Ibiza Cupra Turbo

    #40 24th December 2006, 13:53

    is that the only difference?./ the bolt holes having to be drilled and tapped? the reason i ask is i was going to include the c2 vts on my ebay throttlebody listings but mention that there are slight mods to be made
41. Sean Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2005 St Andrews United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 7384 Green mk1 vtr/s and Focus zetec

    #41 24th December 2006, 14:06

    nope as far i'm aware you cant fit the c2 throttle body to a saxo, as i've said it's a bsi unit and wouldn't work with the saxo throttle cable and ecu.
42. supersav Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2003 walton on thames Posts: 287

    #42 24th December 2006, 15:45

    getting back to the subject in hand, the new engine featured in the 207 and mini is basicly a tu 1.6 block, but has had many changes made to it.
    
    I can only coment from a bmw point of view but the differences are quite large.
    
    the 1.6 16v found in the cooper has an extra camshaft at the back of the head that is moved by an electric motor to adjust the cam timing, in the same way bmw have done on their "n" series engines, known as the valvetronic system, and as per any adjustable valve timing system helps to spread the power through the rev range, also giving better fuel economy.
    
    the cooper s version does not have this extra shaft, but obviously does have the turbo.
    
    each version does have a twin mass flywheel, camshaft driven vaccum pump, new water pump and thermostat design, and then there's the valves in the head again re-designed.
    
    So whilst the block it's self is the same, every other part of the engine has been played with, so whilst the engine might physicaly fit, you'll need to do some seriouse home work to get round things like the "fly by wire" throttle body.
    
    pete
43. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

    #43 26th December 2006, 12:56

    you mean the new mini engine --developed by PSA - forget it ,far too high tech for a simple engine transplant.
    you need a total new ecu system which can control valve lift ,valve timing --there is no throttle body of any type on it ,air admission is controlled by vlave lift -by computer of course.
    allow £2000 for ecu -then the engine-