inlet manifold differences?

1. turbo_dave Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2007 Down south Posts: 105 E36 M3 3.0 & 2.1 Mondeo w/Eaton M62

   #1 20th January 2007, 19:03

   Hi all
   
   Being new to the world of Citroen, I have to ask some fairly dumb questions I'm affraid...
   
   It seems that there are two types of 8v VTR/1.4 motor, silver top and black top? what years did these change, and can anyone tell me if all 1.4/1.6 8v inlet manifold bolt patterns are the same? I need to find a manifold to do the CAD drawings for flanges to make a manifold to hold some TBs for my brothers Westie (seems he wants some GSXRs like my Ford Zetecs whilst I do him a turbo kit and possibly a 1.6 swap).
   
   Last thing I want to do is go and snatch a manifold from a breakers and pay thirty quid to do an hours drawing just to find I've got the wrong manifold
   
   Any ideas?
2. Ax_beefy Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS

   #2 20th January 2007, 23:48

   All Tu 8 valve head patterns are the same... infact all dimentions bar the internal moving parts are identical
3. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #3 20th January 2007, 23:55

   the port spacing is different on them iirc. dont really have anything to do with 8v's so not 100% sure.
   think they changes when they they went from single plug to 3 plug ecu. 2001.
4. Ax_beefy Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS

   #4 20th January 2007, 23:56

   as far as I'm aware port spacing was the same between black and silvertop.... could be wrong... heed williams advice to be safe mate
5. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #5 20th January 2007, 23:58

   you may be right, but im sure thats why you cnat use the rallye inlet on the 3 plug vtr's????
6. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #6 20th January 2007, 23:59

   iirc:
   early vtr is 0 0 0 0
   late vtr is 00 00
7. Ax_beefy Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS

   #7 21st January 2007, 00:03

   Early VTR is 00 00 same as ax gti and rallye sure late VTr isn't 0 0 0 0, I''m sure I've seen a rallye inlet on a silvertop?
8. turbo_dave Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2007 Down south Posts: 105 E36 M3 3.0 & 2.1 Mondeo w/Eaton M62

   #8 21st January 2007, 02:13

   Thanks guys, points me in the right direction at least. Rep to both of you
   
   I have 00 00 outside right now, so I s'pose a quick shufty under a late VTR would tell me if the port spacings changed (might as well do both types whilst autocad is still warm to help anyone else doing the same thing).
9. Ax_beefy Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS

   #9 21st January 2007, 09:36

   You'll have to let us know if it is different... mind you most things about silvertops are so why not lol
   This flange was cut using a gasket as a template for my TB manifold:
   
   My girlfriend says it looks like 2 possoms lol... I love her because she makes mundane things more exciting! lol....
10. turbo_dave Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2007 Down south Posts: 105 E36 M3 3.0 & 2.1 Mondeo w/Eaton M62

    #10 21st January 2007, 17:05

    Yeah, I've done the whole gasket cutting thing before, most of the gaskets you can buy are dire, so I tend to stay away from them
    
    Watching a 106 XSi manifold on eBay for a fiver right now, so may have a punt on that. I'm getting soft in my old age so frotting around in a scrappy whilst the rain comes in sideways is not fun to me any more...
    
    She's right, it does look like a pair of possums
    
    Have you fitted those yet?
11. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #11 21st January 2007, 17:10

    btw, is yours a single plug ecu or 3 plug? thats where the difference will change.
12. turbo_dave Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2007 Down south Posts: 105 E36 M3 3.0 & 2.1 Mondeo w/Eaton M62

    #12 21st January 2007, 17:15

    I think he has single plug. I'm not fitting the manifold, I only want it to draw the flange up (as my brother won't let me take the car off the road to take bits off to research).
    
    I'll be stripping all that stock ECU dreck out of there anyway and will be going Megasquirt (actually, Microsquirt, as I have access to one of the Beta units).
13. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #13 21st January 2007, 17:21

    i wasnt meaning the ecu will determine whether it can be done, just thats when the manifold design would of changed. if its a single plug then it should fit no probs.
14. turbo_dave Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2007 Down south Posts: 105 E36 M3 3.0 & 2.1 Mondeo w/Eaton M62

    #14 21st January 2007, 17:48

    Aha...
    
    doh, thick northern monkey
    
    Nah, it's an early car ('96).
    
    S'pose I ought to get a late manifold and make an adapter plate too really. Might help a few folk out.
15. Ax_beefy Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS

    #15 21st January 2007, 19:58

    I've not fitted them to my car but they were running a a 106 rallye not so long ago
16. turbo_dave Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2007 Down south Posts: 105 E36 M3 3.0 & 2.1 Mondeo w/Eaton M62

    #16 21st January 2007, 21:11

    Any chance you could do me a rubbing of the manifold flange in exchange for beer money (or beer!)?
17. Ax_beefy Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS

    #17 22nd January 2007, 19:41

    you mean like putting paper over it and scribbling with a pencil?... It'd be a little difficult because I can't get it flat
18. turbo_dave Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2007 Down south Posts: 105 E36 M3 3.0 & 2.1 Mondeo w/Eaton M62

    #18 22nd January 2007, 22:40

    Aye...
    
    Don't have to be neat, just needs a definite outline
    
    If you're having probs, don't worry, it's just as easy to lay out a few sheets and buy one...
    
    Cheers bud
19. Ax_beefy Frequent Poster Joined: Jun 2006 Cannock Posts: 973 Citroen AX VTS

    #19 22nd January 2007, 23:59

    by all means I can do it, just won't be 100% perfect pm me exactly what you want and where you what you want doing with it i.e. I presume you want it sending by post