Cam belt

26th March 2007, 21:37

I think mine is on its way out. My question is will i need a remmap due too having 285 cam. Where can i get a piper cam belt

26th March 2007, 21:55

A re-map? Are you talking about a ECU re-map? That's got nothing to do with changing you cam belt mate.

When you have your cam belt changed, the people doing it will lock everything into position so you timing is not lost.

26th March 2007, 21:57

you cant lock it after its been mapped though as it wont be timied at TDc so the timing will be out for the map. no need for a piper cambelt, just a waste of £££. you will need you timing set again but not a remap.

26th March 2007, 21:57

lol wtf.. why is a remap coming into it.

if you have the cam it should have been mapped allready.

try rining piper for a piper cambelt.

cit/pug belts are fine though

26th March 2007, 21:58

it has been mapped i think. im sure it used to be someone on ssc's but i cant remember the username.

26th March 2007, 22:15

Why do think you cannot lock everything into position after it's had a re-map?

26th March 2007, 22:17

becuase the cam timing is altered. meaning when the pistons are at TDc the cam wont be as the timing will ahve been moved. you can lock it but it wont be in the correct place for the map.
and i sont think, i know

26th March 2007, 22:17

Yeah its been mapped. Im not mega into my engines. So a standard citroen belt will do the same as the piper one.

26th March 2007, 22:18

So it will just need re timing

26th March 2007, 22:23

yeah. any rolling road tuner will be able to do it for you.

26th March 2007, 22:35

Hmmm, perhaps locking it was not the best wording, since the timing will be different to standard. Anyway, I don't see why it can't be kept anyhow, surely marking it up properly would be good enough? I recently had a new head put on, and I didn't lose my cam timing even though it was all taken apart.

26th March 2007, 22:38

do you have standard cams?

he doesnt have standard cams so when his car was mapped they will have altered the cam tming, then teh cam pulley locking hole wont line up so you wont be able to lock it. also whe the belt is tensioned it will slightly move the timing. on standard cams this is hardly noticable and doesnt matter as much as 'performance' cams.

26th March 2007, 22:43

So i will need it rolling roaded. How much is this lot going too cost me just too change the cam belt

26th March 2007, 22:48

cam belt change isnt that much. its the resetting the cam timing that will cost the most. i do belts for £20 but your canny far away for me to do it

26th March 2007, 23:38

Think my water pump is on its way out as well

27th March 2007, 08:11

I'm using 708's. The reason this subject is of interest to me is because I've had the timing lost before. I'll try to explain. Once I had the 708's installed, they also put a new belt on for me, and then I had the standard ECU re-mapped up at Chipwizards. Anyway, when I drove the car all the way back home (south east - so long drive) I noticed a whining noise, which was a the result of the belt being put on too tight. I took the car to a trusted mechanic, who suggested that the tensioners hadn't been changed, and also the belt didn't look brand new! ...A bit scary! So he sorted me out a new belt and tensioners, BUT, he managed to lose the cam timing just how you have mentioned.

Well, that was a while ago now, and more recently, I've had a new cylinder head installed. I had the cam belt done once again as it was convenient. I mentioned to the person doing the head install about my past experiences, and he explained that he can do it without losing the timing. And he didn't lose it. I would have thought the way he did this was by marking the positions, but I can't say for sure. So, there must be a way to get around this problem, as having to get you cam timing set up on a rolling road everytime seems a bit much don't you think? Plus, chances are the car will drive differently, depending how the rolling road operator sets things up and how good they are at it...

27th March 2007, 10:23

so did you get your timing reset after the belt was changed after mapping? if you had a new head fitted he would of had to remove teh cams from teh head into the new 1 so teh only way he could of timed it up was to standard. has it been on the rollers since chipwizrads?

27th March 2007, 11:16

Hi mate.

Here's a run through of what happened... When the timing was lost, I had to go back on the rollers to get it set up properly again, bugger that was! Much later on however, I had a new head put on, and the belt changed, and the cam timing was not lost. The person assured me that he wouldn't lose my cam timing and he didn't... So I'm not 100% how he managed this, but he did.

Since the head work, I've actually been back on the rollers to see what sort of gains I've made, and possibly tweak the cam timing for any possible improvements. The gains were good IMO, and we also managed to squeeze a couple more horses and lbft of torque all the way through the rev range by tweaking the cam timing. If the cam timing had been set back to standard, the results would have been as clear as day on the rollers. I remember when I previously lost my cam timing, and my poor car only made 115 BHP on the rollers, when it had run 154 BHP at Chipwizards.

27th March 2007, 13:45

So what shall i tell the guys that i take it too

27th March 2007, 14:17

Let's see what WilliamsVTS says... But I would explain to them that you don't have the standard cam timing due to having different cams. And then ask them whether they have any experience with this, when it comes to changing the cam belt and do they think they can keep your current timing. It would be interesting to see what they say... Can you ring them before hand?

27th March 2007, 14:29

i dont see how he can fit a new head, remove cams from old head and refit them into your new head inc new belt without loosing cam timing. its impossible.

27th March 2007, 14:29

unless he measured the amoutn of lift at TDc with a DTI then when he put it all beakc together used a DTI to obtain the same amount of lift?

27th March 2007, 14:39

I'll E-mail him, I'm just as interested to find out how...

27th March 2007, 14:49

E-Mail sent!

27th March 2007, 15:26

I got a quick reply, here's how I understand it...

The cam timing is adjusted on the pulley that bolts to the end of the
cam, not belt to pulley. They mark the pulley in relation to the cam so
it goes back where it came from. The pulley is then marked in relation to the engine. To adjust the cam timing the pulley is slackened off and the
cam is moved in relation to it, where ever the cam timing is adjusted to, the
pulley and belt stay in the same position.

When they put the belt back on, there are relating marks on the crank
and cams, so they also go back in the same position they came from.

Putting a new belt would make no difference to the cam timing as it would go
back in the same position as the last one...