Max BHP at what RPM with Catcam 708s

27th March 2007, 20:18

Hello all!

As the title suggests... Has anyone running 708 cams had their car on the rollers? Reason I'm asking, is because I was a bit confused with my latest RR results.

Just to make sure the RR wasn't dodgy, I've been to two rolling roads in the same week. 1st RR gave me 164 BHP at 6600 RPM, and the second RR gave me 161 BHP ar 6600 RPM. (Give or take a tiny bit with the RPM)

I've upgraded the cylinder head to a big valve head, which has had all the usuals done to it, and I'm also running 708s, and the car is running an ECU map done at Chipwizards. But I can't quite work out in my head why the max BHP is at 6600... When I was running the standard cams, I had a few rolling roads done, and the max BHP was around 6800, which is obviously at higher revs than with the catcam 708s. Does anyone know why this is?

Many thanks!

27th March 2007, 20:21

Would offer you help dude but you know what Im like

27th March 2007, 20:28

im gathering that you think it should higher as your reving to 7800 or there abouts

27th March 2007, 20:55

there could be issues with the induction which is limiting power at higher RPM.

What other mods have you got or have you just the 708s?

27th March 2007, 20:59

LOL at Rushy...

That's a good point Bullit, I should have made things a little clearer. I was expecting it to be higher, mainly due to the fact that you have mentioned, and the reason for this is because I can't see how the cams would give me a wider power band! Indeed, it's easier (but not by much) to take the rev to the limiter, but as a result of that power being there later on, I would have thought it would shift the max RPM location of the BHP... I'm just looking at a 'pre catcam' rolling road print out, and the max tourque is also in the same area: 5000 to 6300 RPM. What gives? ...Well confused!

I guess that little extra I have beyond 7000 rpm is the trade off fr what I've lost below 5000 RPM. As I can definately feel the loss of power low down in the rev range.

27th March 2007, 21:05

pm williamsvts

think he has had his setup and rolling roaded with the 708s, he did tell me but i carnt remember off the top of my head what the bhp was??

he took them out and is putting them back in soon lol

27th March 2007, 21:06

Don't say that Kam! I bought the Green filter I'm using off of you!

Hehe, the icons are quite funny.

Well, there's not a whole lot more. I'm using a Scorpion full exhaust system with a Scorpion cat bypass pipe. I'm also using a Supersprint 4-2-1 exhaust manifold. And finally, I'm using an enclosed induction kit (known as the 'ram air' kit from Ecosse)

Anyhow, the rolling road figures were a possitive result, as I'm still using the standard inlet. If there was a serious problem with the air intake, I can't see that it would make the power it did, not even 20 BHP less than that...

27th March 2007, 21:06

pm williamsvts

think he has had his setup and rolling roaded with the 708s, he did tell me but i carnt remember off the top of my head what the bhp was??

he took them out and is putting them back in soon lol

27th March 2007, 21:07

i know that he had the car setup at chipwizards and had the rev limited raised a tad

27th March 2007, 21:19

Thanks Boz, but I'll wait to see if he makes post. I'm a noob here, and don't want to start PM'ing people...

Kam, you obviously know your stuff. Do you have any other ideas? Much appreciated.

27th March 2007, 21:21

lol just do it matey, he wont mind at all, he is sound, he will love the attention

27th March 2007, 21:22

Hehe, OK mate. I've got no idea how to, but I'll have a quick read through the instructions.

27th March 2007, 22:00

im sure he will see this and post a reply, i will tell him to check it out.

all you need to do is look for a thread were he has posted,
look in the your pics/videos section. he has a thread about his car thinks its 'rebuilding the vts (sort of)' by williamsvts, open it and click on 1 of his posts. place the cursor over his name and it will give you the option to send him a private message or pm. tell him i told you to pm him. he wont mind at all mate.
he is the only person i can remember off the top of my head that has 708s, there are loads of peeps with them, but i have a memory like a sive lmbo

think he had a full system at the time with de-cat and manifold, 708s, green cotton forced induction filter and chipwizards remap.

he will be able to fill you in better than i can lol

27th March 2007, 22:04

I've PM'd him. Sounds like he's got a similar setup to me. Perhaps just not the big valve head...?

Thanks for you help Boz!!!

Oh, you can see my car in the noob section if you want.

27th March 2007, 22:38

power seems right mate as they tend to make between 150 - 165 @ flywheel. what doesnt lok right though is where its making its power. i've never seen 708s make peak power below 7100rpm and thats where mine made it with shitty exhaust and very old BMC. i have even seen them make max power on the 7.8k rev limit!!!!
just out of curiosity whats your idle like?
did you tell teh guys what tested you car what the rev limiter was? just incase they input the wrong data into the RR computer before the power runs.

27th March 2007, 22:53

We did a 60 MPH test, and all checked out perfectly. To be honest, it's easily noticed when driving the car. You can feel the power drop in 3rd and 4th after you hit 7000 RPM, but I thought this was normal...? Oh dear... Do you think I've been 'had' with the cam install? But then again, how would my car be making the power that it does? I'm not moaning TBH, as having my max BHP at 6600 as opposed to 7000+ is a good thing, but something doesn't sound right to me... What could it be?

The idle is dodgy now, it was a litte poor after the Chipwizards set up, but I recently had a big valve head installed, and jumped back on the rollers, and we managed to squeeze another 5 BHP and 4 lbft all the way through the rev range! ...But the idle has suffered a wee bit. basically, it's missfiring at idle, but it was doing this after the work by Chipwizards... I think the only way around this will be to get an ECU like an OMEX, and get it all set up properly... But I'm gonna hold fire on that until I get some TBs...

27th March 2007, 23:00

That power increase wasn't from the headwork, that was after tweaking the cam timing AFTER I already got the gains from the headwork. ...If that makes any sense. I'll try to explain: After the headwork, I went to Jamsport for a RR reading, and they showed it as 164 at 6600. I wasn't convinced that the figures were correct, so I went to a motorsport company in Cheltenham, and got it on their rollers. It only showed up as 156 BHP, but also at 6600 RPM. We then tweaked te cam timing and got some nice extras! Funny thing is, if I went back to Jamsport, it would now be at around 170 BHP on their rollers, which would be pretty much impossible with my mods. Goes to show how figures vary from place to place!

27th March 2007, 23:00

seems strange to make max power that low. i doubt you will of been riped off with didgy cams. where did it make peak power after you had been to chipwizards? did wayne not comment on how low it made its power?

27th March 2007, 23:01

yeah, i have noticed jamsport seem to give high figures.

27th March 2007, 23:03

I had the cams installed by Total Motorsport Solution as they are right next to Chipwizards. Do you think they might have shafted me on the cams? I've Emailed them, asking for them to give me the exact spec of the cams they installed for, but they haven't replied... I might ring them up tomorrow.

27th March 2007, 23:06

That's the thing, I don't actually know! The print out Wayne gave me showed the X-axis of the graph in MPH as opposed to RPM!!! And he didn't mention about the power stuff, ect...

27th March 2007, 23:07

just have a look mate. tkae your com covers off and they should have 'sport cam' cast into the shaft. on the very end, opposite end to pullies, it will ahve a part number engraved ending in 708.

27th March 2007, 23:09

it will have power on the graph. will be under Pmax. mine peaks at about 136mph, juts used a ruler to get that

i think the x - axis is a load of shit on the chipwizards graphs though

27th March 2007, 23:20

OK... Looked at the graph, it says (to the right of PMax) "at v = 139.2 mph"

Is that about right?

I can't take the covers off at the mo, as I have nothing to seal them back on with. Great tip about the writing though, that's obviously gonna give me the answer I'm looking for! Cheers mate!

27th March 2007, 23:23

lol, im a nob

mine is at 135.5mph.
your max power is just to the right of that.

27th March 2007, 23:35

Yeah, my max power was a lame 153 BHP... Wayne said this was what he found will all the new models of 106 / Saxos, as the newer models have an EGR valve which seems to take (on average) about 5 BHP from the max.

So... Off with that head, LOL. Now I've got a sweet big valve one, ported, polished, gas flowed, skimmed... Here's some pics. you can see the valve size differences too. Since I've had the cam timing tweaked, it's really flying!

Thought I'd chuck the Jamsport print out in there too. See the max BHP RPM?

28th March 2007, 07:17

yeah, mine is 52 plate and was 153.4hp aswell.

28th March 2007, 08:01

mine made 147@wheels and 166@fly on 708's and mine made peak power at 6995rpm.

sp 66 doesnt sound all that bad to be honest mate. sounds slightly low but its all to do with the combination of mods you are running.