Lowering by notches?

2nd April 2007, 10:43

A Garage near me does cheap lowering but does it by notches and not mm. Is this also known as the splines method because ive heard its not the right way?

Luke.

2nd April 2007, 10:45

yes thats the wrong way

2nd April 2007, 11:45

yeah thats the wrong way to do it, the splines method involves knocking the whole rear arm off and then turning it at just one end a few splines and then forcing the arm back on on the other end. its a cowboy way of doign the job and will not give an accurate level each side. also doign it that way also normally causes the bearings to fail not long after as it normally damages the seals. lowering it the right way is to remove the torsion bars and then reinserting them with the rear arms raised to the desired level, this give a accurate way of lowering the vehicle and keeping it completely level.

2nd April 2007, 12:04

Mine is lowered by notches. Has been for 2 years almost. Had no problems and it's completely level

2nd April 2007, 17:47

Isn't the 'cowboy' way a harder job? The correct way, as Steve suggested, seems much more straight forward. I wish I new this as the time, as I could have probably done it myself. I have know way of knowing which way mine was done, but I've had noises from the rear axle ever since.

2nd April 2007, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natalie

Mine is lowered by notches. Has been for 2 years almost. Had no problems and it's completely level

yeah sometimes it will look like its sat level and may not have any problems but its just not the correct way of lowering and alot of the time it does result in premature bearing failure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Isn't the 'cowboy' way a harder job? The correct way, as Steve suggested, seems much more straight forward. I wish I new this as the time, as I could have probably done it myself. I have know way of knowing which way mine was done, but I've had noises from the rear axle ever since.

i think doing the torsion bars the right way is easy its jsut getting the torsion bars out thats a pain, which is why alot of them do it the splines way coz the torsion bar only needs to be removed from one end as the other end stays fixed in the arm as its knocked off the beam which would be easyer then unseising the torsion bars. i feel alot of the problem is people are not educated in how to do torsion bars there are still many performance garages that dont even know what to do when it comes to torsion bars so wont even touch them and when u say torsion bars to most mechanics they panic and scrathc there head when its such a simple concept

3rd April 2007, 01:25

The spline method is easier, thats why soo many places do it like that!

I bought my vts lowered, thinks it been the wrong way so i will be getting some one to do it the right way when i have the time!

3rd April 2007, 09:18

how is the spline method easier? its harder work to knock the whole rear arm off then fanny about trying to get it back in. Lack of knowledge is why garages do it like that.

3rd April 2007, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott

how is the spline method easier? its harder work to knock the whole rear arm off then fanny about trying to get it back in. Lack of knowledge is why garages do it like that.

yeah i would say the splines method is harder but only if the torsion bars are mega seised because as soon as the anti roll bar is out and the torsion bar is free at the other end (this end is never normally seised) the arm then justs pulls off by hand which in somecases for un knowledged garages will be easyer,less hastle and less time consuming then unseising the torsion bar. its all lack of knowledge like u say scott and i dont know why so many garages panic at the thought of working with torsion bars. i do not advise the splines method to be used at all as its better to do a job right and the correct way the first time rather then having it cause problems later on from doing it the wrong way

3rd April 2007, 11:17

i got my torsion bar lowered 1 notch so its like 1 inch off the floor, is that wrong? it hasnt bothered me or owt.

1st May 2007, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saxoboiiiiiiiii

i got my torsion bar lowered 1 notch so its like 1 inch off the floor, is that wrong? it hasnt bothered me or owt.

Thats definately wrong....one notch is roughly a 45mm drop, so you must have flat tyres or sagging sideskirts!

1st May 2007, 23:06

Oh, and its possible to lower a Saxo/AX/205/106/whatever using the splines method without damaging the radius arm bearings. You just need to do it right!
Its alot quicker and easier than the 'correct' way and you don't need a slide hammer or adjustable dummy shock. And 9 times out of 10, all young kev wants is his back end on the floor so it looks like he's smuggling concrete....dropping it 2 or 3 notches achieves that quickly and easily.

2nd May 2007, 00:15

You Dont need a dummy damper just a tape measure. I find thats more accurate.

I have lowered 3 saxo's by removing the torsion bar and lifting the radius arm using a jack. All different amounts and each one has came out perfect!

2nd May 2007, 07:05

the plines method isnt as acuurate and doesnt have as much adjustment.

saxoboiiii - did you go to that 'tints n tweeks' place in ashington? does the name of it not say to you its shit?

2nd May 2007, 18:11

The splines/notches method is just as accurate....infact its easier to get each side equal than the other way, due to the fact that there would be a difference of 40mm on either side of the car.

I can see the arguments for doing it by removing the bars etc, but if you're doing it yourself on your driveway and just want a 40mm drop or an 80mm chav drop, it is possible to do it without bollocksing any bearings and without using any specialist tools.

Socket set, hammer, penetrating fluid and patience is all you need. Just don't let the arm hang on the bearing!

2nd May 2007, 18:19

Doesnt it also lead to problems later on????

or shall i shut up cos i have no idea what im on about!

2nd May 2007, 18:41

It can lead to problems later on if you allow the arm to hang off the beam. It crushes the side of the nylon bearing in the arm, which isn't a replacable part.

Don't let it hang.....don't stress the bearing.....don't worry! lol

Why they didn't just spec proper metal roller bearings like in older PSA cars I don't know. Costs I expect.

2nd May 2007, 18:42

**I meant hang off the beam as you remove and refit it**

2nd May 2007, 23:06

sorry mate but i the splines method is not accurate, so your can tell me that u can lower the car any mm using the splines method? yes u can use the spliens method to lower a car if u do it carefully to not damage anything but u will only be able to lower it certain amounts in big steps e.g 40mm,80mm etc... u can not do it to the exact mm u want usign the splines method.

yes removing the torsion bars completely to do it the right way can sometiems be a pain because there usually seised but anyone that knows what they are doing will get them off and not only that the time spent having to be carefull getting the arms off and not damaging anything to do it the splines way would jsut be the same amout of time to unses the bars. i have lowered almost 20 torsion bars including quite a few people pff here and i have allways done it the right way, if your going to do a job you are best of doing it right the first time and i am sure most people on here will take my word for it

2nd May 2007, 23:30

You're confusing accuracy with adjustability. Saying the notches method isn't an accurate way is basically saying its difficult to get both sides exactly even, which of course it isn't. In fact its the opposite.

Its not the most adjustable way though, I agree. But my point is that 90% of Saxo owners either go for a 40mm drop or an 80mm drop....most don't know about chassis dynamics and suspension setups, because most are know nothing chavs who don't come on these forums. Thats not to knock anyone on here.....I've owned loads of Saxos in the past, aswell as AX GT's and my g/f has a VTR which I'm a fan of....except the wank engine.
So if these people want an easy drop, this is the way forward because its quicker and easier. And to say its the wrong way is wrong in itself.....like all mechanical work, its only wrong if you do it wrong.

2nd May 2007, 23:46

its wrong end of in my opinion, and its not accurate and might not even do it 40mm exact, plus like i said if u know what u are doing then the proper way is jsut as easy. were are all intitled to our own opinions tho and i do sorta see where ur comming from in a way but its jsut not right, speak to any decent citroen tuner such as pug1off, cittuning, carworks etc.. and they will agree

3rd May 2007, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icey_Furio

You're confusing accuracy with adjustability. Saying the notches method isn't an accurate way is basically saying its difficult to get both sides exactly even, which of course it isn't. In fact its the opposite.

Its not the most adjustable way though, I agree. But my point is that 90% of Saxo owners either go for a 40mm drop or an 80mm drop....most don't know about chassis dynamics and suspension setups, because most are know nothing chavs who don't come on these forums. Thats not to knock anyone on here.....I've owned loads of Saxos in the past, aswell as AX GT's and my g/f has a VTR which I'm a fan of....except the wank engine.
So if these people want an easy drop, this is the way forward because its quicker and easier. And to say its the wrong way is wrong in itself.....like all mechanical work, its only wrong if you do it wrong.

so your saying because people dont know a lot about their car pull the wool over there eyes and do it the wrong way?
you also say the bearings are nylon spacers arent replaceable, i beg to differ.
why would you want to bray the arms off, when you dont need to?

3rd May 2007, 15:04

We refurb this axles as some people know ,just to add one or two things to thinkabout.All bearings seals pins and bushes are replacable .What i have noticed when ajusting by removeing the torsin bars is the bars ONLY go back in on one spline ,so there for when doing it the spline system the spline are no correctly line up so forcing the shaft in only asmall amount but enough to alter the radial force onthe bar.

3rd May 2007, 19:26

Steve: If thats your opinion, then thats your opinion. Yours doesn't affect mine. If I found an easy way of lowering my car, yet it meant the back end would sit at 47.432mm instead of 40mm EXACTLY.....I think I could probably live with it.

WilliamsVTS: I'm not saying its a case of pulling the wool over peoples eyes and doing it the wrong way, because it isn't the 'wrong' way. If both methods are done correctly, then both will work fine. What I'm saying is that if the average modder or whatever they're called these days, walks into a garage and asks for them to lower the back of his car....provided they do it correctly, its a cheap and easy method of lowering it.
As far as the bearings being replacable or not, I can probably be educated there. Working for a number of motor factors over the years, we were never able to source bearing kits alone for Saxos, 106's etc, unlike 405's, Xantia's, 205's, 309's and the like. I was always lead to believe that the kits weren't available to purchase seperately and any prolonged wear inside meant the arm would need replacing. Seemed silly at the time, and if I'm wrong about that then it only argues my case further; that even if you did the notches method and ballsed it up, that you ARE able to replace the stuffed bearings.

aspsaxo: I see what you're saying, but surely removing and refitting the arm is an easy method to get right, because if you don't get it at the same height as the other side, the difference would be immediately noticable without a tape measure or anything?

I'm not saying anyone elses ideas are wrong, or trying to be a warrior by taking everyman and his dog on, but if I see people slating something non-stop that doesn't nessicarily warrant it, I'll poke my oar in. Once upon a time, someone said that it was not possible to remove the headlamp glass from a mk2 Saxo and repaint the insides, to recreate the In-Pro black types....but I went and tried anyway. Now everyone does it. And when I did do it, I had heaps of people saying I needed fine wet and dry, and had to primer up the lamps, then wait 24hrs, then rub down etc......well I didn't. I sprayed them with a can of Halfords Satin black straight on to the lamp having masked them up and to this day not one bit has flaked off.

So for anyone who's sitting back quietly following this because they're genuinely interested, my opinion is that either method can be used with no problems, provided its done correctly. Withdrawing the bar would be the best if it was easier and if you didn't need a keen eye and a slide hammer with the right attatchment. The notches method is ok too, provided you don't want to get an exact height and you don't stress out the bearing.

3rd May 2007, 23:43

It doesnt take a slide hammer, a bolt and a socket are about the most specialist tools needed and in most cases is easier and more effective than a slide hammer. A ruler to measure distances isnt to much to ask either really.

For that to get an accurate measurement without the potential of damaging the bearings, i know what I do.

4th May 2007, 02:02

'tints and tweeks' lmbo

6th May 2007, 20:55

good info need to look into this myself soon