Rubbish Brakes

  1. Newbie Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 3
    #1
    Hi

    I'm trying to help my grandson out with his Citroen Saxo brakes.

    They are terrible. Not spongy, but dead hard and not losing brake fluid. You've got to almost stand on them to pull up (I'm talking about me - I weigh 17 stone)

    We thought it might be the Servo so tested it as per the Haynes manual (pumped it hard a few times, started the engine and the pedal did go on down an inch) so think that's o.k. (the flap valve is o.k. too).

    It doesn't pull to the side at all when braking so suspect it must be something common to the whole system.

    We're wondering whether to change the master cylinder or not as the next step but can't think why it might be that.

    Any thoughts or advice greatly appreciated.

    Pat
  2. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2005 Teesside Posts: 8800 focus tdci, clio v6
    #2
    have you thought about upgrading the calipers and discs to either the peugeot 206 gti 266m ones or the peugeot 306 283mm ones.
    this shows great improvements in braking
  3. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #3
    Since you have already carried out some extensive tests, I'm guessing that you have already checked out the condition of the brake pads and brake disks...?
  4. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Pompey/Darlo Posts: 31546 MK1 - 1.1 Animal
    #4
    standard saxo brakes are crap, its a wel known fact

    there are possiblities, but the best bet as danny has mentioned above is upgrading them.

    What size wheels are on the car firstly? There are a number of different brakes you can fit, but certain ones only fit under certain size wheels

    14" Wheels - 206 GTi 266mm Set up.

    15" Wheels - 306 GTi6, Zsara VTS, 206 GTi 180 - All 283mm

    There are other brakes that can fit, including 307 HDi and 406 4Pot Brakes, these I dont know that much about

    I have the 306 GTi 6 set up on my saxo and its improved the ride ten fold.

    Just wondering what model it is your grandson has? If its a VTR/VTS then realistically you will not need the master cylinder from the car which you get the brakes off if you upgrade. But with any other models you may need to upgrade the master cylinder, im not 100% sure on that, maybe someone else can clear that up for me, but im unsure if they will have the same size cylinder as the 1.6 saxo's. If im right then it would be advisable to upgrade the cylinder.

    You should be able to find the brakes at a local scrap yard or french brakers, if you have trouble, williamsvts on this site usually does packages for the brakes as he can get his hands on them, for the 283mm set up its 180, which includes pads and discs, not sure ho wmuch he charges for the 266, whether its the same or not i do not know. May seem expensive, but if you think about it, we are on about the brakes here, they stop the car!

    Hope this is a help to you.
  5. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux
    #5
    that was so nice mat
  6. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Pompey/Darlo Posts: 31546 MK1 - 1.1 Animal
    #6
    Thanx Bullit - I think some of it may even be true Gettin more into the technical side of this saxo business
  7. Newbie Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 3
    #7
    Hi

    Thanks for the quick response. i'll try and answer the points

    I hadn't thought of upgrading calipers etc, I assume we'll have to upgrade the master cylinder first.

    The current pads, discs and hubs are fine.

    I'm not sure what size wheels. I'll find out tomorrow.

    Thanks

    Pat
  8. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Jul 2004 Solihull Posts: 18231 Two Tone Sax
    #8
    what type of saxo is it? Vtr, vts, 1.1 etc
  9. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Pompey/Darlo Posts: 31546 MK1 - 1.1 Animal
    #9
    MC will depend on the engine size, im sure i read that 1.0 you need to upgrade when getting bigger brakes, if you dont upgrade then the brakes will be pointless.

    should only need to do the front brakes.
  10. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #10
    before looking at upgrades I'd make sure everything is in working order.. something isn't working right!

    Does sounds to me like its the master servo - or something linked to that... If you've ever turned off the engine while driving you'd notice that the brake pedal gets really stiff and the car is difficult to stop.

    I'd check that the hoses from the engine to the master servo are clear / unkinked and not leaking before replacing the servo itself. That said it is an easy job to whip one off a car in a scrappy and replace it.
  11. Newbie Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 3
    #11
    Hi All
    Thanks for all the suggestions and help so far.
    I'll try and update with all the points.
    It's a 1.1 Saxo (just passed his test so the insurance is too high for anything faster).
    The wheels are 13inch.
    The hose from the inlet manifold to the Servo is definitely clear - we've had it off and blown through it and there is no evidence of cracks or leaks.
    Somebody has suggested that the crossover actuator bar from the drivers side to the servo might be seized? The Haynes Manual talks about removing it but states not to alter the adjustment nut? No other information about it. I assume it's just a bar in a tube which turns to operate the master cylinder/servo when the brake pedal is depressed.
    It's an Ate servo/master cylinder so if we upgrade I assume we'll need to fit a matching pair? Can anybody confirm that please?
    Thanks, in anticipation
    Pat