Low 14's !!!

12th April 2007, 15:09

Do you think it's possible to make low 14's with N/A VTS? My idea is cammed vts + 50hp shot of nitrous and slicks.

12th April 2007, 15:11

Doubtfull, you would need an lsd to put the power down etc..

12th April 2007, 15:24

yes. slicks are the answer.

12th April 2007, 15:38

yer you could mate. just put it on a diet

12th April 2007, 15:48

I think the answer is yes but maybe not as easy as you might think.

If it was totally setup for the track but then what would be the point as you coulnt enjoy it on a daily basis.

With the right mods and a big pot of money anthings possible

12th April 2007, 15:48

i would like to be in the 14's aswell. just thinking about cams really. got full exhaust system already with filter will see how we go.

12th April 2007, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

yes. slicks are the answer.

What kinda times you posting mate?

<<< 2600 posts - Boo Yer Baby

12th April 2007, 16:42

Low 14's? This can be done of course! You don't even need throttle bodies... It's more to do with the gearing that will make the biggest difference.

12th April 2007, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTS_16v_Boy

What kinda times you posting mate?

<<< 2600 posts - Boo Yer Baby

15.07, need cam timing set properly as i have had them out since the car was mapped that is on road tyres aswell, and with slicks you can definetly get in the 14s.

12th April 2007, 17:36

Just let your tyres down for more grip.

Proper Top Fuel Dragsters only run 3 Psi. The reason is for grip and also the tyre wall " grows " which in turn gives a higher top speed because the final gear ratio ( tyres ) increases.

Seems funny but true. Ive been straightlining since I was born.

Marc, I didnt know you were into it? hehe, come down mine Avon Park or Santa Pod!

12th April 2007, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColSax

Just let your tyres down for more grip.

Proper Top Fuel Dragsters only run 3 Psi. The reason is for grip and also the tyre wall " grows " which in turn gives a higher top speed because the final gear ratio ( tyres ) increases.

Seems funny but true. Ive been straightlining since I was born.

Marc, I didnt know you were into it? hehe, come down mine Avon Park or Santa Pod!

Yeah, but for 106 / Saxo's, you'd want in the other way around! More accelleration as opposed to more top speed. Out of curiousitiy... I wonder what the trade off is like between lower pressure tyres for a better take off Vs higher pressure tyres for better accelleration once there's no spin...

12th April 2007, 17:42

yeah, i got my best time at 25psi, then let them down to 20psi and slowed me down, helped stop wheelspin a little.

12th April 2007, 17:49

lol ask Chris aka "Bicston" if it can be done!

i'll tell you now, its easily achieveable to get well into the 14's!

12th April 2007, 19:36

piss it, shoud be quicker

12th April 2007, 19:41

i know of 2 standard 16v (vts) powered s1 rallye's that are hitting 14.7's

can be done, proper traction, good gearing and dieting....

12th April 2007, 19:43

i know of geoges cammed vts plus 50 shot running 13.78 iirc

12th April 2007, 20:03

13.78 WoW Thats perfect. It will be good if i can make high 14's with cams and breathing mods then spray some nitrous to make low 14's.

12th April 2007, 20:11

Not talking from experience here, but I HEARD that 106 / Saxo's running catcam 708s were running at around 14.5 - 15.0, obviously depending on a few bits and pieces... I need to get some times done! Can't wait.

12th April 2007, 20:24

Quote:

Not talking from experience here, but I HEARD that 106 / Saxo's running catcam 708s were running at around 14.5 - 15.0, obviously depending on a few bits and pieces... I need to get some times done! Can't wait.

very true

12th April 2007, 21:35

Williams vts was running pretty much dead on 15 secs at York last weekend with cams and poor timing, I was running 15.2s on standard cam and ecu with a blowing manifold.

With decent tyres, stripped out, cams and decent map you should piss into the mid 14s. Add the Nos and you have one fun car!

12th April 2007, 21:43

can be done easily imo. know of many NA 1600 saxo/106s running those times.

12th April 2007, 22:16

this is a stripped S1 rallye with VTS, Raceland 4-2-1, pugsport, enclosed filter, one of our boxs with 1.3 rallye FD and standard diff and one of our cylinder heads
running 14'' steels it runs 14.7 all day long, not even fitted the cams yet and thats with yoky A539's

12th April 2007, 22:18

^^^Nice. Sort me out with one of those battery covers!

12th April 2007, 22:31

s1 rallyes rock my cock..

estimated bhp on that martin?

12th April 2007, 22:31

What size wheels you running on it? Get some descent slicks with a bit of a higher profile and then you can afford to rn a little less psi. Just gotta get the best amountof grip from the line and no when your car is running its real redline.

12th April 2007, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo180

^^^Nice. Sort me out with one of those battery covers!

i think thats my old one from before i put the bat inside, comes standard on vauxhall Vectra B's and Omega's, cost about £17 from vauxhall new

i think pauls rallye is about 130bhp ryan, but i know he has even more planned for it

12th April 2007, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

i think thats my old one from before i put the bat inside, comes standard on vauxhall Vectra B's and Omega's, cost about £17 from vauxhall new

i think pauls rallye is about 130bhp ryan, but i know he has even more planned for it

i thought it was pauls rallye from the wheels!

nice to see he is running very competitive times with no diff and only 130bhp.

he needs to take an angle grinder to that bonnet though

plenty of weight left on that

12th April 2007, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

i thought it was pauls rallye from the wheels!

nice to see he is running very competitive times with no diff and only 130bhp.

he needs to take an angle grinder to that bonnet though

plenty of weight left on that

its had some lightening recently but not in the way he intended

12th April 2007, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

its had some lightening recently but not in the way he intended

hes not hit something has he??

ive got a nice great burned thumb from lightening my bonnet 2day OooooOPs..

12th April 2007, 23:00

http://www.106rallye.co.uk/newforum/...ad.php?t=40752

12th April 2007, 23:05

ah thats gutting to see. was imaculate. you rewired the whole engine did you not? know it was one of the localish rallyes i really think showed good results

12th April 2007, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

ah thats gutting to see. was imaculate. you rewired the whole engine did you not? know it was one of the localish rallyes i really think showed good results

as well as the rest lol, we did box re-build, suspension, full rewire, engine mounts loads of stuff
we were hoping to use it as a demo this year but

SORRY for the

12th April 2007, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

as well as the rest lol, we did box re-build, suspension, full rewire, engine mounts loads of stuff
we were hoping to use it as a demo this year but

SORRY for the

lol @ hijack!

ah gutted for you both, obviously it would have been a great demo car, i thought it was one of your more 'famous examples of work' shall we say and really impressed me with what i had seen.
still youve got lots of other cars that youve built as great demos!

ill be making sure im not on the 1/4 at the same time as your ax thats for sure!

13th April 2007, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by davevts

i know of 2 standard 16v (vts) powered s1 rallye's that are hitting 14.7's

can be done, proper traction, good gearing and dieting....

If thats true and Im not saying it isnt but that is very impressive.

I take it they where pretty much just a engine, a seat and driver, a shell and four wheels to get them kinda times?

Looking at people posting about these cars doing 14s, what du reckon yours in on target for Ryan once its all back together? and are you planning to run semi slick tyres for track and drag?

13th April 2007, 08:13

yer wouldt have thought you would need the nos matey

13th April 2007, 14:20

Quote:

If thats true and Im not saying it isnt but that is very impressive.

lad i knew had vts engine plus breathing mods in xsi. he ran that time all day long.

13th April 2007, 14:43

Didn't Leon manage 14.0 dead with only an exhaust, induction kit and a MASSIVE amount of nitrous?

13th April 2007, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTS_16v_Boy

If thats true and Im not saying it isnt but that is very impressive.

I take it they where pretty much just a engine, a seat and driver, a shell and four wheels to get them kinda times?

Looking at people posting about these cars doing 14s, what du reckon yours in on target for Ryan once its all back together? and are you planning to run semi slick tyres for track and drag?

dont have a target as i dont rate cars on what they can run a 1/4 in. if that was the case i wouldnt have fitted the cage. i want it purely to enjoy round a circuit. will run decent tryees when i can afford em, prob start off on R888s.

13th April 2007, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

Didn't Leon manage 14.0 dead with only an exhaust, induction kit and a MASSIVE amount of nitrous?

was that before/or during him blowing the inlet manifold to pieces?

13th April 2007, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

was that before/or during him blowing the inlet manifold to pieces?

Dunno. I loved seeing Leon, his car was rediculously nutty. THink he went through over 14 gearboxes in the end. Nut Legend

13th April 2007, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

Dunno. I loved seeing Leon, his car was rediculously nutty. THink he went through over 14 gearboxes in the end. Nut Legend

plus about 8 engines wasnt it.

remeber when he drove through the ford?

13th April 2007, 23:07

tweeks wen u say "one of our gearboxes" wot do u mean!? i ask coz mine will give up soon. . . . . seems things have picked up since i popped over to see u guys. . . . must b bout 2yrs ago lol

13th April 2007, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestyVTR

tweeks wen u say "one of our gearboxes" wot do u mean!? i ask coz mine will give up soon. . . . . seems things have picked up since i popped over to see u guys. . . . must b bout 2yrs ago lol

did you ever get the cage fitted??
basicaly we strip and rebuild the entire gearbox, new bearings, seals and if it needs them new syncros, we can supply and fit Quaife ATB's and fit a different crown wheel and pinion to alter the final drive (only have S2 rallye FD in stock at the mo) we can also get the gearkit shot peened.
its not cheap but we have never had one of our boxes fail, and i used mine for 8k with 180lbs/ft and it was never used lightly

and still drove like a new box

13th April 2007, 23:22

Remember using slicks and Nos puts you in different class to Class A (FWD NA) so in terms of the class you are in then a 14 or even a 13 isnt respectable in terms of competition. On the otherhand stick to Na and the times ae certainly repectable, depends on what you are doing it for at the end of the day.

13th April 2007, 23:23

Chris what's your 106 pulling the 1/4 in?

13th April 2007, 23:27

13.8 fastest so far, I am at pod again next sunday so see what it gets then

13th April 2007, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicston

13.8 fastest so far, I am at pod again next sunday so see what it gets then

13.8 without Nitrous?

i want a go

13th April 2007, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

did you ever get the cage fitted??
basicaly we strip and rebuild the entire gearbox, new bearings, seals and if it needs them new syncros, we can supply and fit Quaife ATB's and fit a different crown wheel and pinion to alter the final drive (only have S2 rallye FD in stock at the mo) we can also get the gearkit shot peened.
its not cheap but we have never had one of our boxes fail, and i used mine for 8k with 180lbs/ft and it was never used lightly

and still drove like a new box

how much for a rebilt s1with longer final drive or sxi box?

drop me a pm with prices or estimates. ill need1 b4 i buy the gti engine.

another thred hi jack! er yeah id like mid 14s also lol

14th April 2007, 00:15

yeah without nitrous, hopefully sort my launches out and get the 60ft times back down and knock a couple of tenths of that, 13.5 would be brilliant, getting it is another thing lol

14th April 2007, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestyVTR

how much for a rebilt s1with longer final drive or sxi box?

drop me a pm with prices or estimates. ill need1 b4 i buy the gti engine.

another thred hi jack! er yeah id like mid 14s also lol

longer final drive?? wtf... you do know the s1 box is the same gearkit as all sports boxes, the short final drive are what makes the overall gearing of the box seem short.

14th April 2007, 08:43

i do now!

14th April 2007, 09:29

Nos VTS at York on Sunday. Sure he said it was just filter exhaust and Nos. Think he said he ran a 13.8

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...NosVTSVRX7.flv

14th April 2007, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicston

Remember using slicks and Nos puts you in different class to Class A (FWD NA) so in terms of the class you are in then a 14 or even a 13 isnt respectable in terms of competition. On the otherhand stick to Na and the times ae certainly repectable, depends on what you are doing it for at the end of the day.

you can use slicks in our class at york, no rules on what tyres you can use. our class is just up to 1600 NA without nos.

14th April 2007, 10:16

You are lucky. In Bulgaria this class is up to 2.0 N/A With NOS. From this season it will be up to 2.0 N/A without NOS. There are cars in 12's.

14th April 2007, 10:17

isnt leons car now for sale for 1500 mattwesty was telling me, heard he had around 8 engines or so also

major amount of money into that

14th April 2007, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestyVTR

how much for a rebilt s1with longer final drive or sxi box?

drop me a pm with prices or estimates. ill need1 b4 i buy the gti engine.

another thred hi jack! er yeah id like mid 14s also lol

as ryan said ans S1 with longer FD defeats the object, PM with waht you want

14th April 2007, 20:31

i cant wait till i get my s1 box back on.

shame i shafted the bolt in the bellhousing! fingers crossed i can retap the thread.

14th April 2007, 20:43

s1 with longer FD?? why not just use a vts or vtr box then? depending how long you want it to be.

14th April 2007, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

s1 with longer FD?? why not just use a vts or vtr box then? depending how long you want it to be.

he didnt realise the s1 box was the same gearkit.

i belive he thought that the s1 had a spethal short gearkit, not just an uber final drive on a normal sports gearset.

14th April 2007, 20:47

good call. soooo many things should be made a sticky.

14th April 2007, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

good call. soooo many things should be made a sticky.

ja, shall we sort out a few things dude?

gear ratios, as in boxes and final drives, what contain sports ratios?

cam choice etc...

speak to one of the mods see if we can do some stuff to be made stickys

15th April 2007, 21:59

could be a help. if somebody has all the gearbox codes aswell that would be good.

15th April 2007, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

you can use slicks in our class at york, no rules on what tyres you can use. our class is just up to 1600 NA without nos.

I have only ever run at santa Pod, different venues have different rules and regs, Santa Pod changed form fwd na up 1600 to FWD na of any capacity, kind of makes it difficult against the big capacity na cars now, makes it a good battle though lol. Slicks are only any good for those that know how to use them, I havent got a fucking clue, R888s were bad enuf in getting hot then getting the launch right.

16th April 2007, 09:00

well for a start you are going to need very soft slicks as they are going to need to get up to temperature very fast. If you are using slicks you can run a lower psi because you can get heat into them quickly. Road tyres will only be able to be run slightly lower than standard psi as they are not designed to build up heat so best not to look like a nobber wheelspinning away for no reason.

16th April 2007, 09:28

imo, i dont agree.

there is a bloke that is always at york. never warms his R888s up, just flaws it off teh line, has no wheelspin and runs mid 14s all day in a vts with juts head work. stripped aswell. when you watch the video of the day back everybody except him gets wheelspin, so i put it down to the slicks. he even says, that when he went to slicks for the first time it knocked 0.3 seconds off his time.

and R888s are road tyres so you shouldnt need to get loads of heat in them.

16th April 2007, 10:11

r888's are semi slick? If so they are not what I class as a road tyre. Road legal is not a road tyre imho. Semi slicks come in different compounds too and to get the best out of an event like a drag strip you want as soft as you can get

Slicks always works at their best with a bit of heat in them but because they have no tread they are harder to get heat into. Semi slicks are easier to warm up as the tread that can move under load but still are completely different to joe averages road tyre thats designed for 15,000 miles of carefree travel. Road tyres can be wheelspun and then touched and they are almost cold. A semi/slick will retain heat a lot better because they are meant to

16th April 2007, 18:02

they are a raod legal tyre, so if they needed shit loads of heat in them they wouldnt be road legal. and i have seen it with my own eyes that cars using R888s and avon ACB 10s get a better launch than cars on normal road tyres.

17th April 2007, 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

could be a help. if somebody has all the gearbox codes aswell that would be good.

ive got a few lists.

sir cheng appears to have lots.

17th April 2007, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

they are a raod legal tyre, so if they needed shit loads of heat in them they wouldnt be road legal. and i have seen it with my own eyes that cars using R888s and avon ACB 10s get a better launch than cars on normal road tyres.

semi slicks dont need as much heat in as full slicks as the tread still moves. Of course r888's will be better than a normal road tyre, but they will still work at their optimum with a bit of heat in them. They are a medium soft compound which means they should heat up pretty fast, though i'd use some super soft yoko's instead which are designed for short sprint type racing.

17th April 2007, 22:19

going bac to the low 14 sec it should be poss without gas i got a 14.7 without cams and re map and it wasnt strippedso with cams re map and some slicks id say about a 14.4. i did run a 14.1 with 25 shot of gas but didnt get the best of starts

17th April 2007, 22:23

im sure you had cams but not mapped

i remember

17th April 2007, 22:26

i thout i had cams myself lol but only found out about a month ago that i didnt cause had to get them sent of to kent cam to get them re profiled so i slowed my conversion down a bit was unhappy when i first found out cause it ment spending more money but then on the other hand it will be even quicker when it all done

17th April 2007, 22:30

oh right, lol. memory hey.

was that at pod that time?

17th April 2007, 22:31

yea was at usc last year and the 14.1 was at late night special october