Got Catcam 708s installed? Please post your RR print out.

29th April 2007, 16:32

As the title suggests. The only RR print outs of either a 106 or a VTS on Catcam 708s is my own! If anyone has got a print out, please can you post it? Many thanks!

29th April 2007, 16:55

Nothing to do with what you asked mate lol but my local Pug guys recommended
Catcam over the Piper 285s I was considering..

29th April 2007, 17:00

They're very popular. Keep your ears open for these Longmans cams too, they are apparently good also.

The reason for this thread, is because I'm still totally confused as to why my car is still producing its max BHP at the same RPM as it did with the standard cams - 6600rpm. I know the cam timing can alter this, but I've had them dialled in spot on. I would have expected things to change a bit...

29th April 2007, 17:02

Only think I can put it down to is maybe the rolling road you used or the fact
that every engine will be slightly different?

29th April 2007, 17:05

Well, if some people post their print outs, I can then get a clearer picture. The last two RRs I went to, both showed the max BHP to be at 6600rpm, there or there abouts...

29th April 2007, 18:40

I can't understand why you are confused. Lower you get the power better for the engine. No need to rev it high. I will be very happy if my car is producing the power in lower revs.

29th April 2007, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by nassso

I can't understand why you are confused. Lower you get the power better for the engine. No need to rev it high. I will be very happy if my car is producing the power in lower revs.

yeah but what he is saying is when you get the car mapped for the new cams they tend to raise the rev limit to allow you to get the most power from teh cams, so you would expect the peak poer with the new camshafts to be higher then standard....

29th April 2007, 19:18

Yeah, kindda. I'm not complaining, please don't get me wrong. Dave, I don't know enough about engines and cam shafts to be able to understand what exactly sets the power band. I assumed that power would be moved further up the rev range, which it kindda has, as now at 6300rpm I'm producing the same torque as at 5000rpm. This wasn't the case with the standard cams, as power would drop off earlier. However, the actual peak BHP and lbft is still all around the same rpm. Do you get what I'm trying to say? I'm almost confusing myself lol.

29th April 2007, 19:22

The catcam 708s have effectively widened my power band, which I think / thought to be a little odd. I think roughly from 5000rpm to 6400rpm, I'm producing around 138 lbft. All I need to do now is sort out a gearbox that will help me keep it there!

29th April 2007, 21:05

rushy when you came to buying yours i was gonna say go with a different cam

toad is weird, williams and spensor should be able to help

29th April 2007, 21:57

What's your problem then?

29th April 2007, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Yeah, kindda. I'm not complaining, please don't get me wrong. Dave, I don't know enough about engines and cam shafts to be able to understand what exactly sets the power band. I assumed that power would be moved further up the rev range, which it kindda has, as now at 6300rpm I'm producing the same torque as at 5000rpm. This wasn't the case with the standard cams, as power would drop off earlier. However, the actual peak BHP and lbft is still all around the same rpm. Do you get what I'm trying to say? I'm almost confusing myself lol.

thats ok mate i am hardly an expert i'd just expect the power to be higher in the rev range rather than spread over a longer period, could this depend on the duration of the cam??

29th April 2007, 22:07

I honestly don't know...

29th April 2007, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullit

rushy when you came to buying yours i was gonna say go with a different cam

toad is weird, williams and spensor should be able to help

You mean stay away from the Piper ones then? I know Kent are a bit iffy? Any
advise my way is welcome.

29th April 2007, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushy_23

You mean stay away from the Piper ones then? I know Kent are a bit iffy? Any
advise my way is welcome.

ive always heard that the cat cams are better than the pipers? dont know why. think i remember that the pipers are softer or something? or maybye that was kent lol

29th April 2007, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushy_23

You mean stay away from the Piper ones then? I know Kent are a bit iffy? Any
advise my way is welcome.

ive always heard that the cat cams are better than the pipers? dont know why. think i remember that the pipers are softer or something? or maybye that was kent lol

30th April 2007, 01:12

i think the crack with cams is they move the power band higher up the rev range due to higher duration, allowing the valves to stay open that bit extra hence increasing power??? (may be wrong lol)

i have been in williams and i know he has had the rev limit increased and it revs way past the red line of a normal vts lol

he would be the man to chat to

30th April 2007, 14:42

mine has just made max hp at 6782 rpm.

lower than normally but this seems to be getting more comman.

30th April 2007, 14:46

Oh right, that's interesting. I guess it's a lot to do with the actual Catcam 708s then...

30th April 2007, 15:08

the 7.8k rpm limit is a bit of a waste if peak power is that low imo, only good for holding 3rd on 1/4 mile.

30th April 2007, 15:26

Still have never been on a drag strip. I find it handy if you are turning hard and don't have the chance to change at the proper time.

1st May 2007, 16:57

here is my print offhttp://www.saxperience.com/forum/att...5&d=1169894193

1st May 2007, 16:59

Rolling road graphs are utter bollocks.

Williams - Yours WILL make peek north of 7k, unless the mappings all fucked.

You can tell when it's peeked and dropping off anyway

1st May 2007, 19:44

Thanks Spence, only prob is that the X-axis on that is in mph and not rpm. I have got a similar RR print out from Wayne, and it looks almost identical to yours as far as the curve reaches its peak.

1st May 2007, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

Rolling road graphs are utter bollocks.

Williams - Yours WILL make peek north of 7k, unless the mappings all fucked.

You can tell when it's peeked and dropping off anyway

yeah, im not to bothered about my last graph, was getting the cam timing set, graph only goes up to 7k aswell??? and i have a 40hp transmission loss!!!!!!!! will post iit in a bit.

1st May 2007, 22:06

had my car mapped on 708s at chipwizards last year. here is the graph for that:

had the cams out a month or so ago so took teh car to motorscope to get the timing set again. there seems to be a big difference in tranny loss and wheel power. power also seems to be low down:

car seems to pull well, will find out at york this weekend how it really goes.

1st May 2007, 22:30

Thanks for posting those pics. The second lot of graphs look a bit odd. In the first, any idea what nspecs means?

Again, the Chipwizards graph looks similar to mine, just like Spencer's. I guess the 708s are not really that lairy of a cam. I was thinking they would be producing max BHP around 7k, but I was obviously mistaken.

1st May 2007, 22:33

i know of a few that make max hp at 7.6 and 1 person made max hp and the 7.8k rev limit.

i asked him about prated and nspecs, he said that is the power he is expecting it to maek and where in the rev range.

1st May 2007, 23:24

Oh, I had no idea about those figures. My nspecs is 7200...?

I lost my cam timing when a kind mechanic changed my cam belt for me a little while after being up at Waynes... I wasn't totally sure what was going on at the time, so I went to a local RR to see what was up. Somewhat interestingly, my car made a pathetic 125 BHP! However, it peaked at 7190! I guess the timing has a lot to do with things, not just for power, but for where in the rev range it comes in at.

3rd May 2007, 15:23

Here's my graph from chipwizards.

Mine feels like it's producing peak power pretty much at 7.8k as the power just doesn't seem to tail off at all!

3rd May 2007, 16:23

hhmmm, mine apparantly makes peak power at 6.8k according to motorscope, but according to chipwizards it makes it higher than yours????

3rd May 2007, 18:44

This is all very confusing.

4th May 2007, 01:01

thats why i would be scard to take my car incase it was dissapointing

lol
i just go off what it feels like on the road, williams yours pulls well, it was like a rocket when we went over to gateshead, that was before you had it setup on the rolling road wasnt it??

4th May 2007, 01:02

see if you get better times a york when you go next, you should do with them set up and with you new tyres

lol

let me know how it goes matey

4th May 2007, 08:47

Just thinking about stuff, the 708s are said to have a powerband from 2000 to 7000 I believe. I remember the chap at TMS saying that they should also give good power to 7600. To have the max BHP outside of the powerband doesn't seem correct at all.

Now here's something really wierd. My rev limiter is 7800. The last 2 RR I went to, would take the car to the limiter. Looking at the print out, you can see the point in which the throttle is released, as the curve just stops and drops, do you know what I mean? Well, on these last 2 RRs, (even though the limiter was hit) the curve stops at around 6900 RPM! This seems totally wrong to me.

4th May 2007, 09:28

As boz says, I just go off what it feels like on the road.

Does your engine feel like it's peaking to early then toad, or are you just confused with the results taken from different RR's?

I must admit, i'd like to try out other 708/remapped 16v's to see if the differ in power delivery etc. I've driven campdaves pt51'd/remapped vts, but couldn't really compare it to mine as he had full interior + an exhaust, car bits, luggage, kitchen sink, asylum seekers etc inside it.

4th May 2007, 10:55

LOL. I'm the same, would really like to get an idea. My car pulls its hardest anywhere between 5000 and 6500 I reckon. For example... I'm fairly sure that if I put the boot down at 5000 it would reach 6000 quicker than if I put the boot down at 6500 trying to reach 7500. I try to change around 7000, it can go and hit he limiter, but there doesn't seem to be much point.

If I compare you RR plot from Chipwizards, mine is a little different. See where you reach your max BHP, somewhere around 135 mph..? If you look at mine, it's still climbing there, and goes on close to 150 mph before the line just stops completely. WTF? That's completely reverse of what I would have thought!

4th May 2007, 17:58

does it matter where the power delivery is? although whats the point of raising limiter

4th May 2007, 20:42

my car does feel strong on the road and pulls ahead of other vts'. had my cam timing set and im on the 1/4 mile this weekend so will see what my tiems are like then.

i may get it rolling roaded somewhere else just to see what the graph looks like compared to my last 2.

5th May 2007, 02:09

has that place opened up at gateshead yet mark? you know the kid that was getting a rolling road at his place from C4F site?

i think it will be better off if you just went to the same place each time for rooling road print offs, that way you can compaire what you got from last time.

each place/person will be different, then you wouldnt get conflicting results etc. may be different types of R/R and different graphs, software etc, calibration comes into it too.

just like getting your hair cut, different places and different people do it different each time lmbo
i always go to the same place with the same person

thats how i feel about the car when i finally get it sorted, will just take it to the same place each time

lol