More than 160bhp wanted NA

13th May 2007, 21:53

Basically i want more than the standard 160bhp figure gained with catcam 708`s or kent pt51`s or newmans ph3`s.
I will be going standalone and want a budget of upto about £2k all in.

what are the options, staying NA, for reliability!?!
how much hassle are the next profile of cams up? obviously head work, but how severe and what about piston cut outs?
bike throttle bodies and cams sounds good, say something like 708`s and GSXR 600 38mm bodies, what should i see with these?
would wilder cams with the standard tb and uprated injectors be better than throttle bodies for the money?

rep will be given for helpfullness people!!

13th May 2007, 22:01

with wilder cams youd still need pistons or cutouts. i know geoge on ssc ran pt52 on standard inlet, but youd really need to go solid lifters, valve springs the lot.
it would be better to run 708s with car tbs than the above though. all depend on budget?

13th May 2007, 22:15

Bullit is spot on. The money factor is an issue however. If you already have the correct cams, say in this instance 708's, and you wanted a proper TB setup, you would be looking at around the £3k mark IMO, if you don't skimp on ignition management and the like... Defo OMEX IMO.

13th May 2007, 22:19

omex or kms, so the wilder cams (pt52 for eg) and all the associated parts, cams at 400ish,lifters and followers at 250, ecu 550ish, pistons 500ish, rest on decent remap and maybe uprated injectors. do able?

13th May 2007, 22:41

Tom i can't believe your actually going for it! when i got your cal the other day i was like, as soon as he knows what its gonna set him back he'll run a mile. but your clearly up for it! thought you were gonna s/c her though? decided to go N/A instead hey?

good luck matey, baggsy first ride though when its done! obviously let yor missus go first haha!

Oli

13th May 2007, 22:44

You would need some serious headwork to get the best out of the higher lifting cams. That would set you back a heck of a lot. And also the throttle bodies and inlet is mucho £££. I'm not even sure if you can run any higher lifting cams than the 708's without some certain changes to the engine. Can anyone expand on this?

13th May 2007, 22:44

I would do the following:
Newman PH3
Custom made bitube with 58mm exit, 60mm exhaust pipe
56mm throttle body
Colder plugs
Simota induction
P&P Head and skimmed to make 11,3 CR
This will give you around 160-165hp
Then add nitrous system with 50hp shot
This way the car will be much faster and cheaper than TB'd without nitrous.

13th May 2007, 22:46

out of the 2 options id go bodies and 708s. youd really need the headwork aswell for pt52. i think george ran around 166 iirc. he could confirm. with a bodies setup youll be running similar but have a better drive, throttle response etc
you doin the work yourself?

13th May 2007, 22:46

have you spoke to stevenixon he's running 167bhp at the fly and he's N/A

13th May 2007, 22:53

Buy my car an i dont think you'll get over the 160 mark with our budget as after 10 you dont get a lot for our money with n/a like a big valve head ported an polish will add very little but costs loads.

Think long an hard about it mate

13th May 2007, 22:58

Quote:

anyone expand on this?

as i said toad george ran pt52 with followers and cutouts. im sure he kept standard lifters. 99% sure

13th May 2007, 22:59

best option is defo 708 and bodies, you could always add to it

13th May 2007, 23:02

You say ECU £550 ish what about an adaptor plug or ar you hard wiring in an this will add money little things like this that get over looked an cost money if you say you want to spend 2k add at least another £500 for bits an bobs maybe even another grand as they all add up trust me been there done it.

13th May 2007, 23:04

full kms mapped, prob over a 1k tbh then bodies and cams- all in 2.5-3k

13th May 2007, 23:09

ket me play about with a few different specs and I'll post up some options tomorrow. PM me if I haven't cos its going to be a busy day for me and I'm prone to forget lol

13th May 2007, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by S34MER

Tom i can't believe your actually going for it! when i got your cal the other day i was like, as soon as he knows what its gonna set him back he'll run a mile. but your clearly up for it! thought you were gonna s/c her though? decided to go N/A instead hey?

good luck matey, baggsy first ride though when its done! obviously let yor missus go first haha!

Oli

you know `im up for it just making some proper calculations and working out some options with the people in the know

13th May 2007, 23:16

god106gti, does the kms not come with an adapter? for a couple of extra pennies, and yeah with throttle bodies i knew there was all the extras, like fuel senders, throttle linkage, custom inlet....etc

Kamracing that`d be great buddy i`ll check tomoz mate

bullit thanks for the info, could you find out georges spec and rough costs?

nasso, not keen on the idea of nos, what are colder plugs? rough idea of cost for that setup?

14th May 2007, 01:38

i would go for

catcam 708s, solid lifters, springs etc
big valve head, ported + polished
high comp pistons
decent proper car TB setup
omex 600 standalone (fas superior than KMS IMO)
lightend flywheel

that should get you where you want to be BHP wise

14th May 2007, 06:54

youd go 809s with that spec, also thats a bit over budget, lol

stebbs as i said yuoud n better to go 708s and tbs rather than wilder cam. youd have a much better setup, also its not just about pub figues its the way it drives etc, where you have the power ....

14th May 2007, 09:08

stebbs - is your car a 3 plug as the KMS doesn come with a ready made adapter for it, you would need 1 made up.

14th May 2007, 09:15

Nitrous is the only way to make your car go really fast without spending thousands on it. TB setup is very expensive setup. The setup i gave you will be much faster and still reliable without spending all this money only for the engine. Nitrous gives you opportunity to be very fast just when you need. With nice internals and progressive controler you can use up to 100hp shot of nitrous and make low 13's on 1/4mile

.

14th May 2007, 09:18

Just a quick question for you Bullit mate, why is it better to go with 708s and
tbs rather than wilder cam in this case?

14th May 2007, 09:48

theres a few ways of doing this and your budget is quite limiting. To get the best out of high lift cams you really need better induction and vis versa.

Can you hold out and save a few months?
A throttle body and ecu will get you to about 150bhp at about £1.7 to 2.2k
but they allow you to run a lot lumpier cams which when combined can easily push you over 170bhp. But then your limiting factor will be your headflow and pistons.

If I was going to start gradually building up an engine then I think its a no brainer. Start with a good throttlebody and ecu combination. The DTA systems are very good

If you have a little bit of money spare after that then a lightened flywheel.

This will allow you to save for the cam you want then get the head properly matched to the new spec cam. What you don't want is a head ported for a lower spec cam as you will not get the full benefit of your higher lift cam.
Your cam choice will dictate whether you will need to uprate the injectors and bottom end to cope. It gets expensive when you start fettling the internals.

14th May 2007, 10:06

IMO anything over cams an a remap or using standalone it will cost alot more than your budget theres injectors headwork pistons with cut out etc etc. The the kms adaptor loom is about £250 if i remember right but if you go to another name like omex or dta you have to hard wire it in which again will cost money unless you could do it yourself.

Imo your best bet is to go boost you will get the power you want maybe abit more but unlike running lumpy cams an it been a abit rough to drive(well not really rough but people with big cams will know what i mean) it off bosst an it will be like a normal car. But imo you will need abit more money.

An why you he want to run solid lifters with 708's as do you know how much extra it is with lifters an springs dont think its for from the £800 mark as i didnt bother.

14th May 2007, 10:12

mine made 147 at the wheels without throttlebodys. they flywheel figures were 166bhp and that is on standard intake! no need for bodies to acheive 160bhp. just get some headwork done and the 708's will do the rest.

14th May 2007, 10:18

he wants well over 160bhp in which case at some point he will need to ditch the standard induction. With the right length induction you can get good power on a standard engine, then you have an engine that is flexible enough to cope with big power lairy cams

14th May 2007, 10:31

thanks for all the info guys, by the sounds of it i`ll be saving for a little longer, the ideal setup i was thinking of was something like pt52`s, or 809`s, solid lifters, omex 600, headwork, then the gsxr 600 bodies (38mm).

14th May 2007, 10:52

what sort of figures would i be looking at with 708`s, bike bodies, omex 600, headwork and solid lifters? that should be near on budget

14th May 2007, 13:00

Since the resident experts are looking at this thread, could someone please advise me on what I should do if I was looking for more power?

I'm still on standard inlet, running 708's with a big valve head, worked by Hiflowheads. I've currently got an S1 rallye box being installed in just a couple of days. Any good tips would be helpfull!

My thoughts were to go with a TB setup, and an Omex 600 ECU. Is this a smart move? What TBs should I go for? Thanks in advance!

14th May 2007, 13:23

well i can't say i'd recommend bike throttlebodies. The theory is sound - they should increase power but in reality they seem to give poor results due to poor inlet angles and the interuption of flow by using silicon hosing in the inlet. Direct to head jenveys seem to be a good buy as the 106 lacks space.

14th May 2007, 16:29

ok so if i scrap the idea of throttle bodies for now, what about high compression pistons? with some of the aboves?