vtr to vts torque

14th May 2007, 16:28

i dont know if this is the right place but anyways. i was just wondering what the difference power wise there is between a vtr and vts. does the extra 40 bhp (in my case) make all the difference. i am thinking about selling the vtr to buy a vts but just wondered what peoples opinions are on them. what i really wanna now is if the difference is drastic or not. am have been looking at a 20v turbo fiat coupe but love my saxo cus of its handling and power to weight ratio. sell it to me people!!!

14th May 2007, 16:31

Drive one and find out

14th May 2007, 16:56

40hp increase from vtr to vts???????

fiat 20v turbos????? i wouldnt buy 1. hard to work on and arent the most reliable.

14th May 2007, 17:01

i think you will find the fiat to be disappointing on the corners and very likely to be worse than a french car in reliability. I followed one on the motorway puffing plumes of smoke out the rear. Seemed about right.....

The VTS will be a lot better car but the difference is more like 22bhp off the top of my head. The performance benefit will be at high revs where an 8v traditionally loses power to a 16v

14th May 2007, 17:03

difference is unbelievable.. you dont think its much untill you've driven one.. my mate took mine for a spin about 3 weeks ago and gave it some in first and slammed it 2nd.. said it totally scared the shit outta him as it just pulled towards the footpath with the power.. people look and say only a saxo bla bla bla but a sharp vts would push most things within reason up the road...

14th May 2007, 17:37

lol 40bhp increase from VTR to VTS??

theres only a 22bhp increase or a 30bhp increase depending on whether you have the 90bhp or 98bhp VTR engine, the S is only 120bhp mate

and YES it makes a SHIT load of difference mate, you'd be suprised actually! twin cam helps alot!

14th May 2007, 18:44

translates to around 20% more power which in my books in a considerable increase, although interestingly as you titled it... the torque between the two engine is very nearly the same.. although occurs at totally different rpms.

14th May 2007, 18:49

i remember that discussion

14th May 2007, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

40hp increase from vtr to vts???????

fiat 20v turbos????? i wouldnt buy 1. hard to work on and arent the most reliable.

yeah sorry im being thick i mean 30 as i have a phase one engine

14th May 2007, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

translates to around 20% more power which in my books in a considerable increase, although interestingly as you titled it... the torque between the two engine is very nearly the same.. although occurs at totally different rpms.

well its torque that matters mate bhp is just an indication of how much power the engine does create but its torque that makes the car move and throws you back in your seat so surely thats the most important factor. when ever i look at a car i always look at the torque figure first.

14th May 2007, 19:10

well they have the same torque

14th May 2007, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacksax1

well its torque that matters mate bhp is just an indication of how much power the engine does create but its torque that makes the car move and throws you back in your seat so surely thats the most important factor. when ever i look at a car i always look at the torque figure first.

i wasnt sure thanks for clearing that up lol

14th May 2007, 19:10

the torque figure is what dynos measure and the computer calculates bhp

14th May 2007, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullit

well they have the same torque

ya, this is where the factors such as rev limit, and torque profile come into it.

as blacksax said.... torque is the 'mazin force that shifts the car... but that has to go through a torque-multiplier (gearbox) before sending le force to the wheels. lower the gear... the more torque multiplication going on and so higher acceleration. VTS engine has a higher rev limit and so can have a lower gear thus MORE wheel torque and bosh more acceleration...

14th May 2007, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

ya, this is where the factors such as rev limit, and torque profile come into it.

as blacksax said.... torque is the 'mazin force that shifts the car... but that has to go through a torque-multiplier (gearbox) before sending le force to the wheels. lower the gear... the more torque multiplication going on and so higher acceleration. VTS engine has a higher rev limit and so can have a lower gear thus MORE wheel torque and bosh more acceleration...

bang on

14th May 2007, 20:04

Mate, the difference in 16v to 8v is mad. Get a VTS!

14th May 2007, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColSax

Mate, the difference in 16v to 8v is mad. Get a VTS!

well im getting the itch so got to see if i can pay the rest of my car off and then trade it in for a vts.

14th May 2007, 20:20

thers a really big diffrfence mate just sold my vtr and got an vts at the last mintue and tell you something a wouldent go bk the diffrence is a really big change a dont think you could expect it till you compared the 2 by driving them

14th May 2007, 20:25

youve also got to learn to rev when making the switch

14th May 2007, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullit

youve also got to learn to rev when making the switch

True VTS's do benifit from being revved hard. Keep it above 4k and its alot of fun.

Col.

14th May 2007, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullit

youve also got to learn to rev when making the switch

i always thought that was the only way to drive a car. lol

14th May 2007, 22:04

Don't get too confused with all this talk torque malarky. You've seen Bic's 106 right? That's got less than 140 lb/ft! BUT, it's amazingly quick. BHP is a good way of calculating the power, the torque figure helps to give an idea of what area in the rev range the car's power band is. Saxo's / 106's are less likely to 'throw you back in the seats' because of type of delivery of the power. Compare this to say a turbo diesel, where the max torque is below 2000 rpm! And it's a hole different ball game. The Audi A4 comes in a 110 BHP model which is a turbo diesel, and it has traction control because it's so easy to light the tyres up, but it's actually a really slow car, just "torquey."

14th May 2007, 22:09

is a 106 gti quicker than a vts as i have heard that they are lighter?

14th May 2007, 22:21

my mate has a 5.7L chevvy camaro with about 350lb/ft (if not more) of torque, but my saxo is quicker than it. so torque isnt everything

14th May 2007, 22:39

Definately. i bought a vts and then drove my mates vtr after that and was quite disappointed with the vtr just because i had driven a vts.

15th May 2007, 02:40

ignore...

me being rude and nasty when im pissed,.

sorry

15th May 2007, 03:17

btw, i was taking the piss with my post. my saxo is quicker though

15th May 2007, 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

btw, i was taking the piss with my post. my saxo is quicker though

quite enjoyed seeing it go at york like.

1.1 badge was fooling no one not even leckie

15th May 2007, 04:18

lol

whats it sound like? i like hearing my car

15th May 2007, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by adsayer

for the fucking love of god.... i've realised these days i can repeat myself on and fucking on but still some people wont listen....

torque... is the 'thing', the acceleration force you feel well accelerating.

AS I SAY you have a fuckig gear box that acts as a torque multiplier.... how the fuck does an engine with 107lbft propel a car to 0-60 in 7 secs...

107lb is the same as a skinny bastard, take me or salmon1 for instance, standing on a lever 1 foot away from the centre.... yet it still bangs a plastic shed to 60 in 7 secs.

here comes the gearbox and the fact that a vts engine can rev to 7250 rpm.

gearbox multiplies the torque from the engine

the high rpm means the gearbox ratio's can be lowered THUS the multiplication of TORQUE can be higher. and so.... the acceleration is higher..

So to sum up..... torque is the crucial figure in engine development.... however high rpm means a lowere gearbox ratio and so a huge torque multiplication.

Tdi's,hdi's std's, sti's vd's etc have massive torqres but are let down by the fact that they can only rev (usualably) to 4000rpm. thus a higher ratio and so not as much whell torwque..

more when im soba....

Make note! This is a good answer.

15th May 2007, 09:41

but isnt the speed of a car also to do with the power to weight ratio not just torque and bhp

15th May 2007, 11:37

Yeah, it sure is.

15th May 2007, 12:54

power to weight ratio is also a key factor.. fair enough the vts is only 120bhp which isnt massive compared to the likes of say a civic type r which is arund 197bhp.. BUT!!! the vts only weighs 935kgs or there abouts, compared to the civic which weighs 1203kgs or so.. its then quite easy to see why they are as fast as they are.. a car with a higher power to weight ratio will accelerate faster than a car with a lower value.. then cams etc into the vts can see 160-160bhp.. this then increases the power to weight even more..

15th May 2007, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamsvts

lol

whats it sound like? i like hearing my car

sounded like a 50cc motorbike mate

I cant honestly remember... just impressed by its go.

15th May 2007, 13:57

Toque - Turning force generated by engine

Power - Work done by engine (torque per second is a good way to sort it in your head)

A high torque, low power engine is a diesel.

Low torque, high power is an F1 engine (think an F1 lump peeks at about 250lb ft, same as a Skoda Diesel!)

at approx 5.5k torque and power will be roughly the same number

VTR and VTS have pretty much the same torque figure IIRC, there is only so much turning force you can get out of a 1.6. However the VTS is a feck load quicker