Modded VTR vs 106 gti

1. harrisvtrkid1 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 300 Own a 01' plate vtr

   #1 15th May 2007, 23:29

   Vtr 98bhp 3point ecu
   
   - Scorpion full system
   - GMC 4-1
   - Cam (piper)
   - Bmc/Green Enclosed
   
   Stock 106gti
   
   Would the vtr be running 120brake??
2. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #2 15th May 2007, 23:34

   what duration cam? a piper cam means nothing. as could be a 270 or a 285 etc..
   
   and the vtr will have a shit gearbox still.
3. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #3 15th May 2007, 23:34

   depends on the cam really.. Certainly it wouldn't be an unrealistic expectation with the right one to be around that figure
4. godfridge Infrequent Poster Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 155 Mk1 Saxo vtr

   #4 15th May 2007, 23:35

   get an ecu remap aswell and you should be, mayb a bit more
5. harrisvtrkid1 Regular Poster Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 300 Own a 01' plate vtr

   #5 15th May 2007, 23:42

   Which are the best cams? For power all throught the rev range really
   
   Trying to avoid a remap if possible
6. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #6 16th May 2007, 00:07

   why? a remap makes the car run better.
   
   and unless your going to remap it the best cams are standard cams.
7. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #7 16th May 2007, 00:09

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by harrisvtrkid1 Which are the best cams? For power all throught the rev range really Trying to avoid a remap if possible

   the more lairy the cam the more need of a good mapping session.
   
   i wouldnt get an uprated camshaft without a remap
8. mardon Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Wirral Posts: 606 mk5 Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra

   #8 16th May 2007, 07:12

   I'd think it'd be fairly close. But as said a better gearbox would make a large improvement. Try and source a 1.4 (pug 106) xsi box. There pretty good ratio wise, whilste the gear box is out why not wack a l/b fly wheel on there too.
   
   I dont often see standard GTi's though, or are you reffering to a mates?
9. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

   #9 16th May 2007, 07:32

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by harrisvtrkid1 Which are the best cams? For power all throught the rev range really Trying to avoid a remap if possible

   first of all its cam not camS VTR is 8v = single cam
   
   why are you trying to avoid a remap? it will make the car run sooooo much better, otherwise your likely to have spent £100's on a cam and it will be pointless, you'll get about 2-3bhp extra with a decent cam, unmapped. but then re-mapped your looking at more like 15-20bhp! obviously depending on which cam you choose. so why wouldn't you remap? silly if you ask me!
10. mardon Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Wirral Posts: 606 mk5 Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra

    #10 16th May 2007, 07:34

    And it'll idle like a dog on speed!
    
    Does the saxo lot tend to use a ecu remap from wayne at chip wizards or a piggy back ecu mapped else where?
11. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #11 16th May 2007, 07:50

    Isnt this just another way of saying VTR vs VTS which has been asked a zillion
    times already?
    
    Take it out on the track and find out mate.
12. mardon Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Wirral Posts: 606 mk5 Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra

    #12 16th May 2007, 07:56

    But on track its down to the driver. I thought he was saying it so he could get an idea of speed after the mods (although a 16v engine will drive differently to a VTR with the same power due to torque placement in the rev range).
    
    Is that why without fail VTR's always try to race me?
13. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #13 16th May 2007, 08:00

    106 GTis around my end are known to be typical boy racer cars lol. Most of
    them are R regs and are clapped out! Still shift though.
    
    Well not a track then mate down the strip then. I mean it would be interesting
    to see the result of the 8v against the 16v running similar power but as said
    above there are other factors that effect it like gearbox, torque, where the
    peak power is reached and also weight will be a factor in both cars. (cant
    strip it on the sly and cheat now can we)
14. VTS_16v_Boy Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2006 Dartford Kent Posts: 5251 Pug 1007 HDi Sport (daily) / Abarth 500

    #14 16th May 2007, 08:03

    Depending on the cam, but alot also depends on drivers, tyres etc etc.
    
    A tuned 8v could beat a standard 16v under the right conditions.
    
    Oh by the way a cam is pretty much useless with out a remap as the ecu wont know to take advantage of the extra lift etc on the cam profile.
    
    Remaps pretty much go part and parcel with a cam/s and shouldnt even be entertained without a rolling road setup. If your looking to do things on the cheap - Just dont fit a cam.
15. mardon Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Wirral Posts: 606 mk5 Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra

    #15 16th May 2007, 08:07

    Wouldn't dream of stripping it Although the back seats are coming out for track at FCS.
    
    Yeah unfortunately R reg's due seem to be gashed up. The latter reg's are usually more subtly modified.
    
    I'd off to do a sprint but mine's not standard.
    
    If I were to put money on it the following would happen: -
    
    VTR would pull in front in first, then the GTi/VTS would catch up in second.. after that who knows
16. VTS_16v_Boy Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2006 Dartford Kent Posts: 5251 Pug 1007 HDi Sport (daily) / Abarth 500

    #16 16th May 2007, 08:19

    Far too many variables but I still dont think its unfair to say a R COULDNT beat a S
17. andyvts98 Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2006 darlington, Co Durham Posts: 156 mk1 & mk2 vts and leathered mk2 vtr

    #17 16th May 2007, 08:23

    i would say the vtr would give the gti a good run like its all down to the drivers
18. VTS_16v_Boy Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2006 Dartford Kent Posts: 5251 Pug 1007 HDi Sport (daily) / Abarth 500

    #18 16th May 2007, 09:12

    Standard to Standard I wouldnt think the R regardless of 90bhp or 98bhp would bother the S. Dont forget the S has a slightly better box.
    
    But a tuned R might be able to give the S more a run for its money.
    
    But yes I agree a bad driver can spoil a good cars chances of putting a good time down and there fore allowing a less powerfull car to beat it in either on a strip or track.
    
    
    ** Is it worth a Mod locking this thread otherwise it will go on for ever?**
19. mardon Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Wirral Posts: 606 mk5 Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra

    #19 16th May 2007, 09:35

    That is true but it didn't get silly and there were some good points made.
    
    I saw a V6 clio get beaten by many lesser cars simply coz the guy was a tool! Also saw a Astra VXR putting down 7.6 and higher at trax again daddy’s boy tool!
20. Neil_H Infrequent Poster Joined: May 2003 Solihull, West midlands Posts: 114 Saxo VTS, VX220 Turbo

    #20 16th May 2007, 12:06

    I remember a guy off ssc was trying to build a vtr capable of being as quick, if not quicker than a standard vts with similar mods mentioned in this post. IIRC, he had the usual breathing mods, uprated cam, headwork, dastek (may also have had a vts box) , stripped interior etc etc, and was running around 130bhp I believe. His quickest 1/4 mile time was something like 15.7@ 87-88mph iirc, so about as quick as a bog standard vts (probably cost him around 2-3k though!)
21. sy_VTR Established Member Joined: Jul 2006 BLACKBURN Posts: 1216 BLACK MK2 VTR, MK1 POSI VTS

    #21 16th May 2007, 12:10

    [QUOTE=S34MER;1156060]first of all its cam not camS VTR is 8v = single cam
    
    in theory it is cams, the word your looking for is camshafts (16v) camshaft (8v) as there are more than one cam on a camshaft!
22. mardon Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Wirral Posts: 606 mk5 Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra

    #22 16th May 2007, 12:11

    Wow, seems a waste of money to me.
23. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #23 16th May 2007, 13:03

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by S34MER first of all its cam not camS VTR is 8v = single cam

    
    if you wanted to be pedantic your actually wrong
    
    the vtr still has 4 cylinders, so has more than one CAM it just only has one camshaft.
24. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #24 16th May 2007, 13:10

    Let's call the CAMS, lobes for arguments sake then?
25. mardon Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Wirral Posts: 606 mk5 Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra

    #25 16th May 2007, 13:16

    Nah cams sound well more street
26. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #26 16th May 2007, 14:06

    my mate had a vtr with a pt40 cam, unmapped and done the 1/4 mile in 15.6secs.
27. James Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Hull Posts: 11909 Beeeemer

    #27 16th May 2007, 16:29

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by S34MER you'll get about 2-3bhp extra with a decent cam, unmapped.

    Your talking shit man, no offence.
28. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #28 16th May 2007, 16:37

    Not really! Think about it...
    
    For more BHP, you need more fuel. By not changing the map, the fuelling will remain the same, hence extra power will be minimal. It may make more than 2-3 BHP sure, but this is anyone's guess really...
29. James Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Hull Posts: 11909 Beeeemer

    #29 16th May 2007, 16:38

    So how do you explain 122bhp out of a 90hp VTR without a re-map, ebay superchip?
30. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

    #30 16th May 2007, 16:48

    how do you know these figures are accurate though? as i have said i got 163hp from a exhaust, mani and filter which is a load of bollocks.
31. James Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Hull Posts: 11909 Beeeemer

    #31 16th May 2007, 16:53

    Thats true but how can anything be accurate... end of the day the best you can do is find a trustworthy rolling road and try to proove the times on the 1/4. Think he ran a 15.6 what sounds about right for the bhp and the rolling road was done at well lane turbo centre.. comes well reccomended.
    
    Anyway i dont think the vtr would stand a chance personally.
32. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #32 16th May 2007, 16:54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cloud So how do you explain 122bhp out of a 90hp VTR without a re-map, ebay superchip?

    I simply can't answer that. But even if it was mapped to perfection, I doubt you would see that much BHP gain anyway.
33. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #33 16th May 2007, 16:57

    yeah call them lobes, rythms with lube. aye ryan
34. rushy_23 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Aug 2004 West Mids Posts: 15392 '98 EK9 N1

    #34 16th May 2007, 16:59

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cloud So how do you explain 122bhp out of a 90hp VTR without a re-map, ebay superchip?

    Where/when did this happen!? That sounds like bullshit to me being honest.
35. CampDavid Saxperience Post Whore Joined: May 2006 Bedford Posts: 7457 Saxo VTS Peugeot 306 GTI-6 Astra SRI

    #35 16th May 2007, 17:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cloud Your talking shit man, no offence.

    Nope, he's right,
36. James Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Hull Posts: 11909 Beeeemer

    #36 16th May 2007, 17:07

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rushy_23 Where/when did this happen!? That sounds like bullshit to me being honest.

    lol.. rolling road with me there?..
    
    
    
    
    
    Read his threads to see the spec, username : cammedvtr
37. bullit Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux

    #37 16th May 2007, 17:50

    rolling roads are al different, everyone knows that. his quarter miles time prove it aswell
38. S34MER East Midlands Joined: Jun 2006 Derby Posts: 8305 Skoda Fabia VRS

    #38 16th May 2007, 17:53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cloud Your talking shit man, no offence.

    nothing new there then
    
    im pretty sure im not far off if im wrong! certainly won't see more than 7-8bhp at the most even with a lairy cam, if its unmapped!
39. ViperRedSaxo__vtr Infrequent Poster Joined: Mar 2007 Rhondda! Posts: 226 Citroen Saxo VTR

    #39 16th May 2007, 18:03

    Quote:

    Quote: Originally Posted by Cloud So how do you explain 122bhp out of a 90hp VTR without a re-map, ebay superchip? Where/when did this happen!? That sounds like bullshit to me being honest.

    Maybee/most definitelly he was talking bout MPH not BHP and he mixed the letters up.. cz 122BHP without a Re-map sounds a bit dodgy for the 90 BHP VTR
    
    
    VTR = 1 CAMSHAFT.. whoever thought different..