bigger brakes

21st May 2007, 13:04

my abs isnt working so rather than fix it am spending my money on bigger discs and better pads.
What work is involved doing away with abs
do i need to run brake lines from the mc by passing the abs unit or can i keep the abs unit in place
the reason it wont work is my new back axle didnt have the rear sensors etc
Also my rear brakes wont bleed could the abs not workin be causing this problem.

21st May 2007, 13:39

Get the ABS fixed, it could save your life.

21st May 2007, 13:50

Didnt think VTRs had abs?

21st May 2007, 14:02

Yeah ABS is important. I'd look into getting the sensors.

I'd recommend 306 gti-6 big breaks there cheap and work VERY well!

21st May 2007, 14:02

some do not many though

21st May 2007, 14:33

ABS is shit, mine fucked and ive just left it like that. much better without it imo. you have fitted new rear calipers and not bled them???
just run it with the ABS in place but not working.

wanna buy some 266mm brakes?

21st May 2007, 14:45

That's bad info Williams. ABS is not shit.

21st May 2007, 14:51

I dislike ABS very much. I ran over a cone because of ABS in my dads vitara....

I was braking hard as a van pulled out infront of me and the ABS came on as i went over a grate and stayed on even after id pumped the brake.... had to swirve into some roadworks......

I prefer good old using your brain and not letting the car decide....

21st May 2007, 15:01

if your getting a brake upgrade, get some from a scrap yard! very cheap! can get 206gti brakes for £100ish...

i pesonally would fix the abs

21st May 2007, 15:19

Sorry Williams, I think what I've written looks like I'm having a pop at you. I'm not... I just think for safety, a road car with broken ABS should get it fixed.

21st May 2007, 15:26

If you know how to use abs and also its limitations then it might be useful oneday. I personally dont like abs and have never needed it in rather a few years driving, and I like the ability to brake safely on snow and gravel. I naturally cadence brake so the system would be virtually useless in my hands anyway. If you can easily reconnect sensors then its probably a good idea. If you havent bled your brakes and you have lots of air in the lines then you are probably unable to lock your brakes anyway which means your abs will not activate

21st May 2007, 16:33

my axle has had play in it since iv had this car so when i saw a decent one a jumped at it.
Problem is it didnt have any connections etc for abs as it was off a vtr without it.so i cant fit abs even if i wanted to.
Since iv fitted this axle i cant get my rear brakes to bleed and i was thinking it mite have sumthing to do with the abs.

21st May 2007, 16:38

what do you mena you cant get them to bleed??

why dont you fit the trailing arms from your old axle to teh new 1 and put new bearings in it? then you will have a good axle and your ABS back.

i should have said before that it was just my opinion on ABS, i would rather not have it.

21st May 2007, 17:07

Without wishing to have a go at anyone in this thread, a lot of people go on about ABS being shit in an attempt to

a. Make themselves seem like a better driver

b. Because they think ABS is for numptys

or

C. Because they don't fully know how ABS works

I've found the ABS on my VTS to be very good. I'd go as far as to say that I've never triggered it on track or found it too intrusive, however it has been helpful a few times on the road. ABS is at it's most helpful when something pulls/steps/wanders out in front of you. I willing to bet that 100% of people will stop quicker in the rain when a child steps out in front of them with ABS than without. Hence mine stays

(NB - Irronically my ABS is currently fucked

)

21st May 2007, 17:17

ABS works though by letting the brakes off to stop a car skidding.. You can do that with your foot, put the brake on and off slightly to stop it locking up, i have had to do this a number of times at work.

I have no doubt that when driving around it is easier to have ABS as you let the car do the work, but on track its going to be pretty intrusive imo, hence why rally cars and most track cars dont have it.. There must be a reason. with the increasing worry about safety in rallying and other motorsports surely if ABS was soo good this would have to be on the cars etc..

Just a thought..

21st May 2007, 17:24

The reason am not putting the trailing arms on is becuase a would still need to buy another abs sensor and fix the bush and am tht used to not having abs any way.
the car will still brake jst as well if u pump it and are alert. i do agree tht abs will be beter if ur mind can wonder tho lol
a jst need to work out how my rear brakes wont bleed and see wat i can upgrade upfront at the least cost lol

21st May 2007, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

ABS works though by letting the brakes off to stop a car skidding.. You can do that with your foot, put the brake on and off slightly to stop it locking up, i have had to do this a number of times at work.

I have no doubt that when driving around it is easier to have ABS as you let the car do the work, but on track its going to be pretty intrusive imo, hence why rally cars and most track cars dont have it.. There must be a reason. with the increasing worry about safety in rallying and other motorsports surely if ABS was soo good this would have to be on the cars etc..

Just a thought..

ABS is a mechanical aid and therefor isn't allowed in most motorsport. As I said, most people don't understand what it does. It modulates the braking at a very high rate, 10,000 times a minute IIRC and a top ABS system will keep the car at the edge of it's braking limits. When ABS was allowed in F1, everyone used it (banned end of 1993 I think, and the technology has moved on since then)

21st May 2007, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reid

the car will still brake jst as well if u pump it and are alert. i

Point proven. Again

21st May 2007, 17:31

wat did people do before abs

21st May 2007, 17:33

They pumped the brakes for all they're worth. Different times though, fewer cars on the roads and more accidents.

Saying that life was fine before ABS isn't realistic though. Cars back then often came with drums all round. Try driving today on 4 drum brakes and you'd scare the shit out of yourself

21st May 2007, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

They pumped the brakes for all they're worth. Different times though, fewer cars on the roads and more accidents.

Saying that life was fine before ABS isn't realistic though. Cars back then often came with drums all round. Try driving today on 4 drum brakes and you'd scare the shit out of yourself

drums are gay! i can vouch for that! fucking cylinders exploding

i personally wish my saxo had abs because i know the system works faster than my foot.

although i think craigs throttle foot would work well on abs. blap blap blap blap..........

21st May 2007, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

drums are gay! i can vouch for that! fucking cylinders exploding

Those cylinders are gay as fuck. Same design as on our old Fiesta. I love the way they put an 8mm bolt right on the back of the brakes, impossible for anything other than rust to access it, I swear they made it round from the factory too.

21st May 2007, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

Those cylinders are gay as fuck. Same design as on our old Fiesta. I love the way they put an 8mm bolt right on the back of the brakes, impossible for anything other than rust to access it, I swear they made it round from the factory too.

exactly why when one comes up and the car has allready ran for a bit im going disc beamage.

21st May 2007, 17:50

I would. I fancy trying to get some twin pots to fit on the back to reduce my unsprung weight further. And to look Fucking great

21st May 2007, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampDavid

I would. I fancy trying to get some twin pots to fit on the back to reduce my unsprung weight further. And to look Fucking great

need custom brackets machining, i looked into it ages ago decided it was to much ball ache lol!!

who was it on ssc who ran evo 4/5 brembo rears?

21st May 2007, 18:07

Dunno, Bucky? I recon I could get the brackets machined maybe. Will see

21st May 2007, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

ABS works though by letting the brakes off to stop a car skidding.. You can do that with your foot, put the brake on and off slightly to stop it locking up, i have had to do this a number of times at work.

I have no doubt that when driving around it is easier to have ABS as you let the car do the work, but on track its going to be pretty intrusive imo, hence why rally cars and most track cars dont have it.. There must be a reason. with the increasing worry about safety in rallying and other motorsports surely if ABS was soo good this would have to be on the cars etc..

Just a thought..

true it got banned from one series of Porsche racing as ABS equiped models were running into the back of the non-abs equiped cars. I would bet money on the old F1 systems still being better than most road cars on the road today.

ABS is great for road cars where the general populus have only basic driving skills. Without additional training many people in an emergency will bury the foot to the floor in panic and is therefore unable to steer. That is the sole reason for abs - to eliminate this. It extends your braking distance but gives you greater control which can help avoid collisions. I'm sure professional drivers can easily drive a car at its limit better than electronics, but not everyone is interested in chassis dynamics and would rather be thinking of what they are buying at the shops than co-efficients of friction between the road and tyres. You can drive a car safely without ABS. I grew up on basic spec fast cars with just four wheels and an engine so had to master cadence braking instead. I'm sure it has a benefit to some people but not to me. Would I remove it on my car if it has it? no. Its better to have it and not use it than remove it and then need it.

21st May 2007, 20:24

try driving round a corner fast in the wet then as you come round the turn you notice that there is a load of cars in front of you stopped, the abs will stop you in time, without you will fly in to the back, no matter how good you are on the brakes the ABS will keep you from locking up the brakes in conditions you require them. Normal condition roads its tit for tat, but its not a crap system and the times people hate it is normally when you dont think the car is sliding and you get the pushing feeling through the pedal when braking, other than that i doubt anyone would notice a car with it or without it apart form this.

21st May 2007, 21:52

Roads! When did track / racing come into this?

Good points made though...

21st May 2007, 22:12

When i decided to bring it up..

21st May 2007, 22:17

me and bucky ran bremo rears (sold mine to taz), i think bucky still has some brackets or can def make some up, PM gabbastard on SSC/AX club and he can sort you out for the brackets and spacers.

22nd May 2007, 08:34

I'll give Gab a shout tonight, cheers Ratty

22nd May 2007, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratty

try driving round a corner fast in the wet then as you come round the turn you notice that there is a load of cars in front of you stopped, the abs will stop you in time, without you will fly in to the back, no matter how good you are on the brakes the ABS will keep you from locking up the brakes in conditions you require them. Normal condition roads its tit for tat, but its not a crap system and the times people hate it is normally when you dont think the car is sliding and you get the pushing feeling through the pedal when braking, other than that i doubt anyone would notice a car with it or without it apart form this.

surely thats a basic driving error rather than an endorsment of ABS. Most likely in your situation you describe you would still crash into the back because the driver is driving well beyond what is safe. On a blind bend you are stupid if you are powering round it at full tilt especially in the wet. I dont think anyone is saying ABS is crap but to say it makes everyone safer is a gross exageration and you do not need it to be safe if you know what you are doing. ABS only works if you brake hard enough to lock your wheels. You can brake very hard and safely without engaging abs. To drive expecting ABS or other electronics to save your ass is a risky attitude especially when 95% of the population has no idea how it works or what it really does.

22nd May 2007, 10:13

i have had it cut in on track a few times and imo, it cuts in too early. thats why i dont like it, its fitted to road cars for the same reason they are designed to understeer, to make them safer to drive.
ABS has its good and bad points.
from a 'enthusiastic' driving point of veiw i would rather do without it.

22nd May 2007, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

surely thats a basic driving error rather than an endorsment of ABS. Most likely in your situation you describe you would still crash into the back because the driver is driving well beyond what is safe. On a blind bend you are stupid if you are powering round it at full tilt especially in the wet. I dont think anyone is saying ABS is crap but to say it makes everyone safer is a gross exageration and you do not need it to be safe if you know what you are doing. ABS only works if you brake hard enough to lock your wheels. You can brake very hard and safely without engaging abs. To drive expecting ABS or other electronics to save your ass is a risky attitude especially when 95% of the population has no idea how it works or what it really does.

Well said! I was trying to say something similar but you hit the nail on the head matey!

22nd May 2007, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

surely thats a basic driving error rather than an endorsment of ABS. Most likely in your situation you describe you would still crash into the back because the driver is driving well beyond what is safe. On a blind bend you are stupid if you are powering round it at full tilt especially in the wet. I dont think anyone is saying ABS is crap but to say it makes everyone safer is a gross exageration and you do not need it to be safe if you know what you are doing. ABS only works if you brake hard enough to lock your wheels. You can brake very hard and safely without engaging abs. To drive expecting ABS or other electronics to save your ass is a risky attitude especially when 95% of the population has no idea how it works or what it really does.

well you wouldnt crash thats the point, and i didnt mean obviosuly steaming round the bend you could be doing normal driving e.g. under 70 but overspeeding for the conditions which everyone does (specially those who think they are immune to the laws of physics and there car is superior to anything else because they are behind the wheel). And ABS does make everyone safer it takes away the human error part of locking the wheels, you cannot turn when your wheels are locked (Well you can be you keep going straight) , how is being able to turn whilst braking as apposed to going straight on a corner not safer? And driving with the attitude that you dont need ABS if you have it is a dangerous attitude, as that 1 time it saves your ass you will be thanking it.

22nd May 2007, 12:12

how do you know that abs would have stopped a crash in such a simple hypothetical scenario? Its nothing about dodging physics but more likely to be down to whether you can physically react in time. ABS or not, if you are going too fast to react you're going to hit them. See even if you are able to steer round the car you may not have noticed the other hypothetical car coming the other way which you now hit head on.
Slow in, fast out would be my hypothetical technique in this situation, in which case I would only be accelerating out the corner if I could see round it. Hypothetically I would be ready to brake because of the anticipated possibility of an unobserved obstruction.
To be honest theres a lot more to a corner than a last minute reaction once you spot a danger. ABS is a last resort that should never be needed as driver skill and awareness should eliminate the need for it.

22nd May 2007, 12:32

It always interesting to see peoples opinions on ABS and other modern gadgets. Do you even have to cadence brake in your driving test any more or do you just nail the pedal to the floor and use the ABS??? I passed my test years ago and grew up on old cars without it so feel no need to rely on an electronic aid. I did'nt need traction control, ABS, EPS and whatever else they throw at modern cars nowadays and dont think pushing a car beyond its limits to activate them is necessary to drive fast.
Do any of you younger drivers worry about driving a car with no gadgets? Do you feel safe knowing you have them? Are you now taught how to use them instead of doing the same thing manually?

Good debate

22nd May 2007, 13:47

I learnt in a renault clio and that had ABS, just put my foot down on the brake in the emegency stop and let the ABS sort it all out, i agree with you kam about this ABS stuff, only being a last resort etc..

I have no ABS and have driven in all weathers and have never needed it once..I have been driving for about 9 months now and haven't crashed, i do as some of you are aware, 100 miles a day 5 days a week in my car and my brakes are fine. If you drive safely and look up in the road infront of you, you shouldnt need it tbh. I was a biker before my saxo so maybe i tend to look further ahead than most people who have never riden a motorbike on the roads, i dont know but all i can say is i have never been in a situation where i have thought, i needed ABS..

22nd May 2007, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

how do you know that abs would have stopped a crash in such a simple hypothetical scenario? Its nothing about dodging physics but more likely to be down to whether you can physically react in time. ABS or not, if you are going too fast to react you're going to hit them. See even if you are able to steer round the car you may not have noticed the other hypothetical car coming the other way which you now hit head on.
Slow in, fast out would be my hypothetical technique in this situation, in which case I would only be accelerating out the corner if I could see round it. Hypothetically I would be ready to brake because of the anticipated possibility of an unobserved obstruction.
To be honest theres a lot more to a corner than a last minute reaction once you spot a danger. ABS is a last resort that should never be needed as driver skill and awareness should eliminate the need for it.

because it was my hyperthetical situation i knew it would stop

but on a serious note, its proven that in those situations ABS will stop the wheels locking and allow you to retain the driving/turning ability of the car, I agree that if you just stamp on the brakes (expecially in the wet) then yes you will lock where as wth ABS you wont (and when i did my driving test there was no ABS on the car and you had to progressivly apply pressure and not stamp so we can stop the jabs at the age thing (unless of course i can call you an old fart

)) The same hyperthetical situation applys to the non ABS car where you might not see the other car, and im reffering to road cars not track cars, I agree on a track there is no need for ABS as its a totally different situation and as you said you shoudl be comfortable with the abilitys of yourself and the car(your not gonna get someone just randomly pulling out on you from a random junction etc and your not going to come in to the corner to fast. The point im making to clear this all up is that ABS is a good thing for safety and for what its there to do, it wont stop you any quicker it will just stop you safer in conditions out of your control e.g. wet, not everyone is a track driver, we all like to think we are and this debate was not against you directly more a general statement (I dont know you from adam and i dont know how you drive) but you cannot dismiss what it does and why its needed (but its each to their own).

22nd May 2007, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mardon

Yeah ABS is important. I'd look into getting the sensors.

I'd recommend 306 gti-6 big breaks there cheap and work VERY well!

i second that!! had min on for a few weeks now and what a difference lol

22nd May 2007, 23:18

wats involved fitting these en budy