group n

29th May 2007, 16:16

what is it

29th May 2007, 16:17

Well group N itself is a class for rally cars..

Basically your only aloowed to make the car safer, and not alowed to tune the engine or anything..

29th May 2007, 16:20

how do you get a group n exhaust n that then

29th May 2007, 16:25

either get one custom made like i did or get an omp or pugsport one..

www.kam-racing.co.uk

Sold there..

29th May 2007, 16:35

OMP make more stuff thats track bound than road bound.

Check out a shop on eBay called YBracing or just put in OMP Saxo into the eBay search and you will come up with the details of this exhaust (which I posted in your other thread)

Group N is the most restrictive level of rallying with basically only minor upgrades made through out the car being allowed to improve the cars overall performance thats why they look so much like a standard car but with just stickers all over them, Group A is a different kettle of fish altogher

29th May 2007, 16:36

just be careful ordering from YBracing, in stock for them means, its still being made in italy.

29th May 2007, 16:40

They state that when you order whatever your are ordering, the order is then pasted onto the factory in Itaily where the order is made then shipped directly to your delivery address.

Ryan could you shed alittle light on group N equipment?
I know you only buy the best, just wondered if youd bought or looked at any Group N or A spec equipment at all or even your view would be good.

Cheers

29th May 2007, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

just be careful ordering from YBracing, in stock for them means, its still being made in italy.

Sound like they are POTN wannabe's..

29th May 2007, 16:43

we think we are able to stock the OMP exhausts soon as we just need to match what the distributor can supply to being the Group N we want

Group N is basically a showroom class of racing, where the cars are very similar to the road variants, whether its rallying or circuit racing

29th May 2007, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

we think we are able to stock the OMP exhausts soon as we just need to match what the distributor can supply to being the Group N we want

Group N is basically a showroom class of racing, where the cars are very similar to the road variants, whether its rallying or circuit racing

Thats great news Kam-Racing

29th May 2007, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

Group N is basically a showroom class of racing, where the cars are very similar to the road variants, whether its rallying or circuit racing

Thats what i tried to say at the top.. except didnt come out aswell. lol

29th May 2007, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTS_16v_Boy

They state that when you order whatever your are ordering, the order is then pasted onto the factory in Itaily where the order is made then shipped directly to your delivery address.

Ryan could you shed alittle light on group N equipment?
I know you only buy the best, just wondered if youd bought or looked at any Group N or A spec equipment at all or even your view would be good.

Cheers

not all the time they dont, they mislead alot of people on sites such as ebay by saying they have 8 in stock for example, alot of people dont read the full print, so saying they have 8 in stock then back tracking with statements about coming from italy is not the correct way to treat a customer 2bh! its usually just roll cages where they state about shipping tbh.

ive not bought any of the group N exhausts or warranted one, it depends on your engine, personally i wouldnt run something like a pugsport on a 180bhp NA car for example as its to restrictive, however on a rallye it seems to be suited perfect.

Theres many differentl levels of kit aswell from not just pugsport boutique, so the generic term groupN covers many different companies products.

I dont personally see a problem with most of them as they are usually dyno tested etc... but as i said are not allways the best for each engine, people need to asses the needs individually before saying what is best.

29th May 2007, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

Sound like they are POTN wannabe's..

except POTN wouldnt send you 1 wheel and then 3 a month later.

29th May 2007, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

except POTN wouldnt send you 1 wheel and then 3 a month later.

What shite service!

POTN didnt want to give my money back a while ago..

also POOOTN wouldnt wouldnt have sent anything.. lol

29th May 2007, 17:18

would it be better than a custom system for my vtr

29th May 2007, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblesvtr

would it be better than a custom system for my vtr

personally id rather have 30macdonalds straws and an empty yoghurt pot than have a 'custom' exhaust.

29th May 2007, 17:33

Custom are fine if you get them made properly..i.e not huugggeee bore sizes and no back boxes with huugggee tailpipes..

nothing wrong with mine.. used to be shite with no back box etc but now i have a whole new system its fine..

29th May 2007, 17:38

well what do you suggest. i was thinking 2.5" pipe with 6x2 tailpipe. i have a 6" just now hense the 6x2 looks a bit chav just now.

29th May 2007, 17:40

i have an ashly group N system. and iv been told that for performance there is no better systems out there.

29th May 2007, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblesvtr

well what do you suggest. i was thinking 2.5" pipe with 6x2 tailpipe. i have a 6" just now hense the 6x2 looks a bit chav just now.

2.5" bore is too big.. would be loud but loose power unless your engine is highly tuned..

My suggestion would be the following..

Track/rally look and sound: 2" bore with a stright through pipe from the CAT. A backbox with a 2.5"-3" rolled out tailpipe..

Smart/most popular: 2" bore with a straight through pipe or a mid box from the CAT.. A backbox with a 3-4" tailpipe or an oval one..

The choice is yours..

29th May 2007, 17:42

what you get with that and where can i get one

29th May 2007, 17:44

Trouble is ashleys are mild steel so will rust..

29th May 2007, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

2.5" bore is too big.. would be loud but loose power unless your engine is highly tuned..

My suggestion would be the following..

Track/rally look and sound: 2" bore with a stright through pipe from the CAT. A backbox with a 2.5"-3" rolled out tailpipe..

Smart/most popular: 2" bore with a straight through pipe or a mid box from the CAT.. A backbox with a 3-4" tailpipe or an oval one..

The choice is yours..

what do you have and do you have any pics

29th May 2007, 17:51

yea but u dont plan to have an exhaust for millions of years do you!lol. it acually come of a stock hatch saxo and he say on the dyno it was far better than anything out there!

29th May 2007, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblesvtr

what do you have and do you have any pics

I have the track/rally one i described..

Thats the tailpipe..

29th May 2007, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by D34no

yea but u dont plan to have an exhaust for millions of years do you!lol. it acually come of a stock hatch saxo and he say on the dyno it was far better than anything out there!

No but you want an exaust to last..Not blow holes in a couple of years..

29th May 2007, 17:53

is that the ashley one

29th May 2007, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

2.5" bore is too big.. would be loud but loose power unless your engine is highly tuned..

My suggestion would be the following..

Track/rally look and sound: 2" bore with a stright through pipe from the CAT. A backbox with a 2.5"-3" rolled out tailpipe..

Smart/most popular: 2" bore with a straight through pipe or a mid box from the CAT.. A backbox with a 3-4" tailpipe or an oval one..

The choice is yours..

2.25bore seems to be a very good combination now aswell james.

as i said in previous posts it depends on what he will do with the engine, where the expansion boxes need to be etc...

and ashely are crap for fitting right

29th May 2007, 17:55

it wont do as i clean it to much as im a mechanic and have it on the ramps every day!lol

29th May 2007, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by D34no

yea but u dont plan to have an exhaust for millions of years do you!lol. it acually come of a stock hatch saxo and he say on the dyno it was far better than anything out there!

stock hatch

and also i doubt he had the money to test on a dyno every exhaust.

29th May 2007, 17:57

to many options. i just want the best one for my vtr

29th May 2007, 17:58

pretty much exhaust as he has contacts with a lot a race teams and hes good palls with the owner of RC developments! and he has a dyno in his garage!

29th May 2007, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblesvtr

to many options. i just want the best one for my vtr

as i said, what are yoi going to do to the engine.

'the best' is an opinion, the best ive ever seen is a £1400 job on my mates 183bhp NA engined saxo made by a company called H engineering.

29th May 2007, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by D34no

pretty much exhaust as he has contacts with a lot a race teams and hes good palls with the owner of RC developments! and he has a dyno in his garage!

an engine dyno in his garage? right... someone has to much money.

you do know the cost of one dont you?

as i said the term 'best' cannot be used as it depends on the SPEC of the engine.

29th May 2007, 18:01

buddy hell is it made out of gold or has he been robed!

29th May 2007, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by D34no

buddy hell is it made out of gold or has he been robed!

what are you on about?

29th May 2007, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblesvtr

is that the ashley one

No, mine is a custom one made like a groupN/A

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

2.25bore seems to be a very good combination now aswell james.

as i said in previous posts it depends on what he will do with the engine, where the expansion boxes need to be etc...

and ashely are crap for fitting right

Yeah that is true, what he wants to do is a big part of it..

The fitment of the ashley i had wasn't too bad, but was rusting like feck!

lol

29th May 2007, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

.

The fitment of the ashley i had wasn't too bad, but was rusting like feck!

lol

ive seen a few pics of the probs a couple of people had with Gashleys on ssc lol.

irc D(n)ickheads fell off at trax last year lol! although knowing him it was held on with bubblegum to begin with

29th May 2007, 18:06

stuff im going to do
manifold
remapp
cams
pully
maybe throttle boddies

29th May 2007, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblesvtr

stuff im going to do
manifold
remapp
cams
pully
maybe throttle boddies

for throttle bodies personally i would run a slightly bigger bore than the 2".

depends on the power you get, etc..

cams? you mean camshaft

8v = 1 camshaft.

if you go custom get it designed for the future mods

29th May 2007, 18:09

its wen people start fiiting them thereselfs on the drive yea will admit ashly system arnt the best fit but all u need is a bit of oxyseterlen!lol

29th May 2007, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

ive seen a few pics of the probs a couple of people had with Gashleys on ssc lol.

irc D(n)ickheads fell off at trax last year lol! although knowing him it was held on with bubblegum to begin with

lol, i saw that too!

you not like nick then?

29th May 2007, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

lol, i saw that too!

you not like nick then?

no me and nick get on fine.

its just the joke Dickhead/nickhead bit like GAYbastard/gabbastard FAGlex/alex etc..........

29th May 2007, 18:17

Oh ah, bit like Ryanal?

29th May 2007, 18:18

wouldnt diy it thats gay. i ant to get as much bhp without going tb or super. so advice with that in mind

29th May 2007, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

Oh ah, bit like Ryanal?

ryANAL

29th May 2007, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

as i said, what are yoi going to do to the engine.

'the best' is an opinion, the best ive ever seen is a £1400 job on my mates 183bhp NA engined saxo made by a company called H engineering.

what has he done???????

29th May 2007, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

ryANAL

Thats the one..lol

29th May 2007, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblesvtr

what has he done???????

erm.. welll.................

Former 106 Super Cup 16v engine mod'd by QEP : Catcams 803, Iapel High Comp pistons, Iapel I section steel rods, ported, flowed, big valves, solid lifters, pug sport sump baffle kit, genuine pugsport DTH throttle bodies, genuine pugsport maxi 4-2-1 manifold, group N engine mounts, custom 2.5 exhaust - no cat, mocal 13row oil cooler, hi-spec 285 disks & 4 pot conversion, braided hoses, omp bolt in cage, sparco top strut brace, emerald standalone ECU, cobra clubman buckets (will have harnesses), no carpet / plastics / interior, 15" team dynamics pro race 1.2s, group n billies and GMC -40 springs...

29th May 2007, 18:23

and what out of that got him 183bhp

29th May 2007, 18:25

Former 106 Super Cup 16v engine mod'd by QEP : Catcams 803, Iapel High Comp pistons, Iapel I section steel rods, ported, flowed, big valves, solid lifters, pug sport sump baffle kit, genuine pugsport DTH throttle bodies, genuine pugsport maxi 4-2-1 manifold, group N engine mounts, custom 2.5 exhaust - no cat

which equates to several grand, and i mean several prob 8-10k new rough estimates.

29th May 2007, 18:25

and im getting to drive it on track soon

29th May 2007, 18:26

Gamblesvtr- All of it together..

29th May 2007, 18:27

nice. any pics of it on here. bit out of my reach

29th May 2007, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

Former 106 Super Cup 16v engine mod'd by QEP : Catcams 803, Iapel High Comp pistons, Iapel I section steel rods, ported, flowed, big valves, solid lifters, pug sport sump baffle kit, genuine pugsport DTH throttle bodies, genuine pugsport maxi 4-2-1 manifold, group N engine mounts, custom 2.5 exhaust - no cat

which equates to several grand, and i mean several prob 8-10k new rough estimates.

Nice engine. What box are you using with that? I bet you have to keep it spun up.

29th May 2007, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblesvtr

nice. any pics of it on here. bit out of my reach

no pics on here, ive got some on my photobucket hold on.

29th May 2007, 18:30

cool
.

29th May 2007, 18:31

29th May 2007, 18:33

mmmmm

Makes me wana buy a 16v and build it up over a year or so then put it in mine..

29th May 2007, 18:33

sexy that all the pics you have

29th May 2007, 18:33

29th May 2007, 18:35

genuine pugsport manifold

29th May 2007, 18:38

exhaust

29th May 2007, 18:39

does he race it prop or somthing.

29th May 2007, 18:39

nope just likes having fun on track.

me and my mates drive our cars not clean them

29th May 2007, 18:43

do you all have vts's.

29th May 2007, 18:48

nope. i dont, i have a standard vtr but big brakes,

and a track car but the type of shell it is staying hush hush

29th May 2007, 18:50

standard vtr? whats in the track car

29th May 2007, 18:54

16v on throttle bodies, and a quaife ATB diff in the gearbox

29th May 2007, 18:56

i know this is off topic but how do i get a pic up here and on my advar

29th May 2007, 18:57

www.photobucket.com to put pics up

go into your user cp and my avatar to add pics

they have to be small

29th May 2007, 19:05

how do i get my pic on my adva

29th May 2007, 22:02

i bet your gona be running some group a saxo shell or something ryan!!

29th May 2007, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

i bet your gona be running some group a saxo shell or something ryan!!

as i said top secret

29th May 2007, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

as i said top secret

dont put me through this!

..

29th May 2007, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

dont put me through this!

..

hahahahahaha!!!!!!

its a

baked bean tin

29th May 2007, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

hahahahahaha!!!!!!

its a

baked bean tin

So its a saxo then or a 106..

Cant wait to see it anyway!

29th May 2007, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

So its a saxo then or a 106..

Cant wait to see it anyway!

it could be anying in the PSA group

29th May 2007, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

it could be anying in the PSA group

AX!!

Would be mental..

BX estate?!

29th May 2007, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

AX!!

Would be mental..

BX estate?!

cv? dx

29th May 2007, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

cv? dx

It just gets better and more exciting!

2cv!!!

29th May 2007, 22:18

Wide arched std the 2cv's..

29th May 2007, 22:19

205?
309
muhahahaha!! the list is endless

29th May 2007, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

205?
309
muhahahaha!! the list is endless

I know...mmm 205's, they still look awesome me thinks..

30th May 2007, 08:33

Slightly back on topic, in ref to whats best for his car - a VTR

If you know for 110% sure your getting throttle bodies then any old off the shelf exhaust isnt really going to suit the extra horse power but alot of people talk the talk but not many walk the walk.

Best thing to do is

Buy a half desent enclosed induction kit
Buy a half desent 4-2-1 4branch manifold
decat it or fit sports cat
and buy any one of the off the shelf sports exhausts Magnex/Janspeed/Piper/Mongoose/Scorpion

As by the time you have done all that, changed some chassis items, maybe brakes etc your probally find a year would have passed you may deside to carry on with the R or do a S conversion but like I reckomend to everybody that asks about tuning the 8v . . .

Play with, enjoy it, keep it for a year then look again at whats best for budget insurance in terms of where you go from there really.

Too many people get carried away with Im going to do this, Im going to buy that, before you know it they have chucked it in a ditch or wrapped it around a lamp post and have bought a Corsa

30th May 2007, 10:34

I'm not far from getting my engine management replaced and some nice TBs installed. From what I've read, do you think I will struggle with my current Pugsport exhaust? Do you think I will also have an issue with the Supersprint manifold? I'm looking to go for some longer duration / higher lift cams than my current 708s.

30th May 2007, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

I'm not far from getting my engine management replaced and some nice TBs installed. From what I've read, do you think I will struggle with my current Pugsport exhaust? Do you think I will also have an issue with the Supersprint manifold? I'm looking to go for some longer duration / higher lift cams than my current 708s.

what cams you looking at going for? newmans i take it? or 711s?

supersprint manifolds are good well made manifolds, pugsports are very good systems, build the engine then worry about the exhaust, it may be slightly restrictive but it totally depends on once the engine is built imo

30th May 2007, 14:16

I haven't decided on the cams. I just think it would be a bit pointless sticking with 708s when going with TBs... What would you recommend? I would need for the car to still be driveable below 4000 rpm. I don't want to have it set up so hot that it could ONLY be used on a track. Eventually, it will be used for mostly track, but it would be nice to be able to take it out for a poke on a weekend every now and again for example...

30th May 2007, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

I haven't decided on the cams. I just think it would be a bit pointless sticking with 708s when going with TBs... What would you recommend? I would need for the car to still be driveable below 4000 rpm. I don't want to have it set up so hot that it could ONLY be used on a track. Eventually, it will be used for mostly track, but it would be nice to be able to take it out for a poke on a weekend every now and again for example...

id stick with 708s tbh, paulM has them with dcoes, dave P on rallye reg went back to 708s for hillclimbing, and quite a few use em with TBs, what tbs you looking at the KMS set up from qep?? ring them and ask what cam profile they recommend for your specific needs as matt will know what to do for your needs better than anyone imo!

708s are more wild than what i currently have lol! i have cup cams lol!

30th May 2007, 14:37

What are cup cams?

QEP do a specific set up do they? Interesting. I might drop them a line... I was thinking of OMEX 600... But it doesn't have to be I suppose.

Cheers for that.

30th May 2007, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

What are cup cams?

QEP do a specific set up do they? Interesting. I might drop them a line... I was thinking of OMEX 600... But it doesn't have to be I suppose.

Cheers for that.

cup cams from pugsport, quite mild. matt did a custom grind for craig on non solid lifters. also i was talking about kms dth bodies lol

30th May 2007, 15:33

I've sent QEP a mail. Looking forward to seeing what they have to say. I haven't got into the specifics of what cams yet, but I'm interested in how much £££ for the full monty set up. I.e., management, trumpets, loom, mapping, etc, etc...

30th May 2007, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

I've sent QEP a mail. Looking forward to seeing what they have to say. I haven't got into the specifics of what cams yet, but I'm interested in how much £££ for the full monty set up. I.e., management, trumpets, loom, mapping, etc, etc...

get out the KY.

and thats at qeps good prices!! the whole set up aint cheap

30th May 2007, 15:40

I'm expecting just short of £3k.

30th May 2007, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

I'm expecting just short of £3k.

sounds fair tbh!

if you stick with 708s though theres a few maps about you can 'borrow' and get tweeked.

30th May 2007, 15:44

Ooo, do go on sir.... I'm all ears.

30th May 2007, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Ooo, do go on sir.... I'm all ears.

theres a fair few people who are going to be running 708s with tbs soon on kms i think! and matt has a few 708s base maps for not tbs applications.

you could get away with a borrowed map for a while until you want a proper map, just depends on your headwork as it all wont be done proper!

im just talking about it as a short term option to get you to the mapper like say wayne up north.

30th May 2007, 15:49

QEP don't map KMS?

30th May 2007, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

QEP don't map KMS?

qep as yet dont have the dyno room built, and dont have a rollling road, they will have access to one id exepect though

30th May 2007, 15:52

There's no need for me to worry about the map then. The car idles like a pig at the mo, yes, but it goes like stink. I'm happy to leave as is, just not for too long.