Reconditioning a VTR/S beam, need to know everything and front upgrade!

22nd June 2007, 11:24

As title says, after my new rear drums were shit from the word go, i think im going to take the plunge and find a VTR/S rear axel. I have a mk2 1.1 52 reg so obviously dont want a crappy old one

Now, what i want to know is:

Which should i go for? VTR or VTS and how much should i be looking at paying

What does it come with? pictures would be great!

How can i make sure its in working order and that it isnt bent or anything?

What do i need to do to it - like new pads and discs, free the calipers up and anywork on beam?

Seeing in mind im changing the rear, would it be worth while changing the front as i need new pads and discs anyway, if so what can i get on a sorta of budget?

Rep and possibly a little paypal bonus might be up for grabs

I need all your knowledge here!

Cheers, Steve

22nd June 2007, 11:26

have a word with williamsvts

22nd June 2007, 11:34

look along the main beam and make sure the torsion bars look equal distances away from it either side, check for play in the trailing arm bearings by giving them a bit of a shake,

get vtr or vts but vts will have abs sensors which you wont have and will need cutting off and i think rear hubs are more expensive for abs models should you ever need 1 so id go for vtr.

pay anything from 80-175 ish dependand on year and condition id be more inclined to go and look at 1 on a car then have the breaker remove it (only taes 10 mins) then you will see if it is bent etc etc

22nd June 2007, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by L1UKEVTR

look along the main beam and make sure the torsion bars look equal distances away from it either side, check for play in the trailing arm bearings by giving them a bit of a shake,

get vtr or vts but vts will have abs sensors which you wont have and will need cutting off and i think rear hubs are more expensive for abs models should you ever need 1 so id go for vtr.

pay anything from 80-175 ish dependand on year and condition id be more inclined to go and look at 1 on a car then have the breaker remove it (only taes 10 mins) then you will see if it is bent etc etc

Thankyou luke, how do u take it off? would it be worthwhile to recondition it myself and then let a garage put it all on and make sure things work?

22nd June 2007, 11:50

why fork out doing all that work and spending all the cahs on the parts and labour when your not clear on what your doing?

Just buy a VTR for the money you will spend, and do you really need discs on a 1.1, my old one was fine! Stopped in plenty of time

22nd June 2007, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxodan

why fork out doing all that work and spending all the cahs on the parts and labour when your not clear on what your doing?

Just buy a VTR for the money you will spend, and do you really need discs on a 1.1, my old one was fine! Stopped in plenty of time

i havnt got the money to change my car right now, i am the 1st owner of mine so i know how its been treated. Its booked in to have new n.s drive shaft and poss wheel bearing and front discs and pads need to be changed. Just thought because rear drum set-up is near on £250 so i can get rear disc set up. And im not selling, i will be keeping it for another year and then my misses will be having it

22nd June 2007, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

i havnt got the money to change my car right now, i am the 1st owner of mine so i know how its been treated. Its booked in to have new n.s drive shaft and poss wheel bearing and front discs and pads need to be changed. Just thought because rear drum set-up is near on £250 so i can get rear disc set up. And im not selling, i will be keeping it for another year and then my misses will be having it

Good answer!

In this case

fair play lol

22nd June 2007, 12:55

you can get a replacemnt rear drum beam very cheap if u just want to replace what you have

22nd June 2007, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxodan

Good answer!

In this case

fair play lol

lol sorry i should of explained this first off! is it hard work then? I can do most things to do with cars, learnt over the years, so i would like a bash at this myself. Willsy found it easy enough by the looks of things - replaced discs and pads, sprayed up a little bit and hammerite, is that all i'd have to do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by L1UKEVTR

you can get a replacemnt rear drum beam very cheap if u just want to replace what you have

Nah i would like discs to be honest if im spending that sort of money

22nd June 2007, 15:28

Tried looking through pages and pages but dont think it has been covered, i am hopefully going to be doing a disc conversion on back of my mk 1.1 (4stud) with a VTR rear axel, now, with the backs being slightly bigger, should i replace the fronts with say VTR or VTS front brakes? and how much would they be?

23rd June 2007, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Willsy found it easy enough by the looks of things

I take it you've had a really good read through the progress thread that i had with mine??

A few things:

VTR and VTS ones are pretty much exactly the same:

Mk1 VTS had the option of ABS and didnt necessarily come as standard- my beam came off a T reg VTS without ABS

Im not 100% certain, but i think the Torsion bars and anti roll bars are the same aswel.

Everything else such as disk size and calipers etc are the same.

Try and get one with handbrake cables and brake lines attached as this will be beneficial if you just want to do a simple swap over.

For me i chose to get new cables (£20handbrake), hoses (I upgraded these to stainless steal goodridge ones although its not necessary for what you're looking for) and brake lines all round (£40 a set), with prices being fairly cheap i decided to take my time and do the lot.

Whilst the beam is off the car id strongly recommend changing the 4 bushes from where the mounting bolts are.

Then make sure that the calipers are in good condition and theres been no leaking brake fluid from anywhere, this is extremely essential.

Disks and pads also need to be changed, prices vary.

The most important bit which could save you alot of money again in the future is to have your bearings etc checked out....I got Josh (jpsaxo) and his dad to look at mine- they check that the pins are in good condition with no wear from knackered bearings.

The above is usually caused by lowering a car or general wear on the Anti Roll bar seal behind the Anti Roll Bar plate. if this seal is damaged and water is able to leak in then it will wash out the grease inside and cause the bearing and pins to grind which would cost you dearly if its not checked (there will be play in the trailing arm)

Aside from that the brake lines that go from the master cylinder at the front of the car are slightly longer for disk brakes than drums, so these will either need extending or new brake lines to match the disks will need to be bought, the choice is yours there

.................................................. ........................................

With the front as yours is a 1.1 you'll have 238mm diameter brake disks, i had these on mine as standard and the brake setup really was poor to be honest. regardless of the engine size still stopping from say 60mph theyre useless.

You have 4 stud hubs anyway with it being a Mk2 so thats a juicy bonus as you wont have to swap them over in order to upgrade.

You could go for VTR or VTS front brakes (247mm- matches rear disks) which are exactly the same or you could go slightly bigger and go for a 266mm off a Peugeot setup. Either way parts can be picked up for these for a reasonable price.

Disk prices are always going to be similar and the pads- definately buy new and then for the calipers it probably wont cost you more than £50.

Any more questions feel free to ask

Good Luck

23rd June 2007, 17:36

ive got some vts callipers u can have for the front if your interested £15

23rd June 2007, 18:03

Willsy - ALL VTS's came with abs and passenger airbag. If you got it off a vts and it has no abs on it then it probably was already a replacement off a vtr

check the dates on teh torsion bars match up with those of the cars manufacture!

All 1.1s with 4 stud have 247mm discs, same size as VTR/S, just bendix calipers instead. You can fit vts brakes straight to the front struts.

Cba to explain any more lol

24th June 2007, 03:31

Dont want to sound negative on my first post, but if you,ve booked the car in to a garage for the driveshaft to be changed i think you'll struggle with the rear beam, spend your money elsewhere mate, youd be wasting good money on the back as your drum set up is more than good enough for you

24th June 2007, 10:29

Thanks willsy!!! great help! i really appreciate it.

So: i can get a 2001 VTR complete rear beam for £200 all in delivered.

as you said with the breaklines, will i need to buy new ones or should they be on the rear beam? and if they dont come with breaklines or handbrake cable how can this be done?

Would a garage be able to check the bearings for me?

Are you sure i have 247mm discs? coz im sure mine were smaller.

Samcook - you have a pm!

carling - only reason i am putting it into the garage is for peace of mind, incase i did something wrong i would have no fall back. Just prefer things to be done right thats all.

24th June 2007, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

Willsy - ALL VTS's came with abs,check the dates on teh torsion bars match up with those of the cars manufacture!

No they didnt, optional extra on early VTS, i clarified this fully and checked against Citroen parts lists to double check before buying it.
I also saw the car which it came off.

24th June 2007, 14:16

Yeh at least some, if not all of the mk1 VTS were offered ABS as an optional extra. The passenger airbag was mandatory though.

24th June 2007, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic

Yeh at least some, if not all of the mk1 VTS were offered ABS as an optional extra. The passenger airbag was mandatory though.

Yeah they were all offered ABS as an extra.

Passenger Airbag definately 100% came as standard

24th June 2007, 15:19

All vts came with abs. I have a brochure from 1997 from when my mum was looking at a saxo and 1999 that i got with my mk1 vtr. Both state the vts had abs as standard equipment.

As stated probably a vtr beam on a vts.

24th June 2007, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT3

All vts came with abs. I have a brochure from 1997 from when my mum was looking at a saxo and 1999 that i got with my mk1 vtr. Both state the vts had abs as standard equipment.

As stated probably a vtr beam on a vts.

when ordering replacement parts while i was refurbing mine, the parts were taken from the cars reg which the axle came from which was a VTS with non ABS which matched up correctly with Citroens parts lists on their system.

Cant say more than that

24th June 2007, 15:29

Unless it was an option to have non abs?

Or perhaps foreign import.