Manifolds?? Exausts?

1. matts14furio L-plater Joined: Aug 2006 Manchester Posts: 86 Saxo 1.4 Furio Black

   #1 26th June 2007, 13:01

   Ok guys my mate said u can get 2 different manifolds...one for torque and one for horsepower?? Is this true and which is which? And Would a decent manifold and stainless steel exaust system do much? Any decent webistes? cheers lads n gals
2. James Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Hull Posts: 11909 Beeeemer

   #2 26th June 2007, 13:12

   *Slaps head*
3. KamRacing Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)

   #3 26th June 2007, 13:17

   a 4-2-1 manifold gives potentially more mid range and a 4-1 manifold gives more top end power in a nutshell
   
   Theres a number of manufacturers, Raceland, supersprint for 4-2-1
   and Piper do a 4-1
   
   GMC also get custom ones made by BTB - either 4-1 or 4-2-1
   
   sales pitch time...
   buy from my site www.kam-racing.com
4. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

   #4 26th June 2007, 13:22

   lol which is better for a VTS as they're already pretty pokey torque-wise?
5. RedB Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Haywards Heath Posts: 8445

   #5 26th June 2007, 13:22

   Its gonna be GMC or KamRacing when i order mine
6. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

   #6 26th June 2007, 14:02

   No, quite the opposite. VTSs do not have a lot of torque. They are high reving, typically meaning low torque.
   
   If you get a decent manifold, you won't notice the difference between the 4-2-1 and 4-1. Even though what Kam said is absolutely spot on, I personally don't think that comes into play until you are looking at a much higher level of tuning.
7. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

   #7 26th June 2007, 14:06

   Im still considering changing my manifold, although with my new set-up i will be wanting to keep as much of the low down power as possible!!
8. VTS_16v_Boy Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2006 Dartford Kent Posts: 5251 Pug 1007 HDi Sport (daily) / Abarth 500

   #8 26th June 2007, 14:09

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Toad No, quite the opposite. VTSs do not have a lot of torque. They are high reving, typically meaning low torque. If you get a decent manifold, you won't notice the difference between the 4-2-1 and 4-1. Even though what Kam said is absolutely spot on, I personally don't think that comes into play until you are looking at a much higher level of tuning.

   Good point, I had a Janspeed 4-2-1 but when it got damaged I chooce to change to a Piper 4-1.
   
   There is nothing wrong with mild steel manifolds its just the Black paint will flake off so is best wraped with Heat Wrap like this
   
   
   
   That way you wont see the manifold go rusty ie surface rust.
   
   A stainless steel manifold will change could as it gets hotter and will look the biz but out the two materials I should imagin one is better than the other performance wise.
   
   
   
   As for they different layouts 4-2-1 and 4-1 will perform differently but with just a induction kit/ Manifold/ cat back exhaust youd probally need a rolling road to show the differance.
   
   Worth pointing out different people will recommend different manifold layouts for different reasos
9. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

   #9 26th June 2007, 14:10

   I thought you were changing you cam shafts from 708s though? If you get the ones you mentioned in the other thread, then you won't have any low down torque. In fact, by going with those cams and throttle bodies, you will pushing your power band higher and higher up, making the car almost useless at low revs. Now, this isn't such a bad thing, but you can't have both I'm afraid!
10. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #10 26th June 2007, 14:14

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Toad I thought you were changing you cam shafts from 708s though? If you get the ones you mentioned in the other thread, then you won't have any low down torque. In fact, by going with those cams and throttle bodies, you will pushing your power band higher and higher up, making the car almost useless at low revs. Now, this isn't such a bad thing, but you can't have both I'm afraid!

    Well it will pull like a train above 4.5-5k mate yes, but they still keep alot of the low down power and are very usuable around town. I had a very long conversation with matt at QEP about this... They should be capable of 190bhp and above, along with other factors including head, boddies, and bottom end. But i will be in the higher rev range all time on track and the 1/4.
11. VTS_16v_Boy Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2006 Dartford Kent Posts: 5251 Pug 1007 HDi Sport (daily) / Abarth 500

    #11 26th June 2007, 14:17

    Good point Toad, most people forget most mods are designed power but normally at the cost of something else normally low down grunt, which is why Id never change cams but thats imo
    
    Its just worth checking before you buy certain mods that your not going to shift all the power to one end of the scale there by making the car very hard to drive.
12. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #12 26th June 2007, 14:22

    Hmm... So you're still planning on keeping the car on the road?
13. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #13 26th June 2007, 14:25

    Yep like always!! Its worth the risk in my eyes... Plus its an opportunity i can't pass up if you get wot i mean
    
    I mean bic's uses his car on the road alot so i don't want to lose this factor... Thats why alot of time and effort will go into building the engine to exact specific's! Plus i will have 2 map's one for road use and one for trak and 1/4!
14. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #14 26th June 2007, 14:28

    I think with TBs and a good standalone ECU, you can actually run a wilder cam that 708's and have a better idle than a car with 708's / re-map and standard inlet.
    
    ...The latter being mine, hehe, and I think the car is sh*t as a road car.
15. Barry123 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2005 Aycliffe Posts: 32205 Saxo VTS

    #15 26th June 2007, 14:28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by VTS_16v_Boy Good point Toad, most people forget most mods are designed power but normally at the cost of something else normally low down grunt, which is why Id never change cams but thats imo Its just worth checking before you buy certain mods that your not going to shift all the power to one end of the scale there by making the car very hard to drive.

    this is where a good backpressure setup can help
16. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #16 26th June 2007, 14:31

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Toad I think with TBs and a good standalone ECU, you can actually run a wilder cam that 708's and have a better idle than a car with 708's / re-map and standard inlet. ...The latter being mine, hehe, and I think the car is sh*t as a road car.

    I think my car is fine as an everyday road car with 708's and boddies!! But i want to push it to the next level expect a work in progress thread on monday
17. saunders Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2006 Kent Posts: 3669 Fiat Seicento, MK2 Furio 2000 X, Pug 206

    #17 26th June 2007, 14:34

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by vtr130 I think my car is fine as an everyday road car with 708's and boddies!! But i want to push it to the next level expect a work in progress thread on monday

    Im waiting for it so get a move on
    
    P.S love your wheels
18. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #18 26th June 2007, 14:35

    Cheers mate. i love you 2 (i mean your wheels)
19. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #19 26th June 2007, 14:36

    Well yeah, that's what I said. If you're running a standalone ECU and TBs, it's actually better (even for road / town use) than just the 708's and re-map of standard ECU. But I was trying to make the point about going with even wilder cams...
20. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #20 26th June 2007, 15:14

    Have you decided on what cams your going to use!? As i have got the power bug and want more!!
21. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #21 26th June 2007, 15:26

    Oh man, now you're asking!
    
    I would like to have a drive in the different setups to be honest. I would then base my decision on that... Of course, if money was no factor, I would want the extra BHP, but it depends how well it uses those ponies....
22. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #22 26th June 2007, 15:55

    Well spoke to matt again, and he said the 803's and 809's pull seriously after 5k! I have had 708's in mine for a year and 6 months with tb's so fancy a change.. But i have got offered a nice deal and aint going to refuse it!
23. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #23 26th June 2007, 15:58

    Cool and the gang. I would like an honest opinion from you on how different the drive is after the cam change.
24. vtr130 Established Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2279

    #24 26th June 2007, 16:00

    yeh i will give you a nice little pm about it !!
    
    Should be finished hopefully for fcs though that is optimistic as there is alot of machining to do!