Engine conversion

7th July 2007, 20:56

Ok so ive already had a look through the guide in the stickies but i'm still a bit confused about something.

If i get my single plug ecu unlocked, i dont have to get another ecu, but i have to fit an engine from a car that also had a single plug ecu, yeah?

BUT, if i get the engine, along with its wiring loom and ecu, could i get an engine from any year/model regardless of whether its a 3 plug or single plug?

Which is usually the best option to go for and is it a big job fitting the new wiring loom

thanks a mil

7th July 2007, 21:00

i also wonder this

7th July 2007, 21:08

right mil

If your furio is either a 3 plug or a single plug get a VTR or VTS engine with the same. Easier for you to sort out, Single plug ecus are supposed to be easier to wire up.

You unlock the ecu of the engine you are putting in not the one you are taking out, unless you do a full car loom conversion it wont be plug and play

7th July 2007, 21:23

ah ok i unlock the new one so that i can use the loom thats already in the car then?

7th July 2007, 21:26

ive got a single pin ecu vtr, if i bought a 3 pin vts engine loom and ecu would it all just go straight in and work or no?

7th July 2007, 21:31

from what ive gathered you would have to change the whole wiring loom if you were to do that.....so yes it would work.....but would be a lot of hassle

7th July 2007, 21:35

Drop a tuned 1400 in it mate like i am doing..Getting a 1400 engine from the same year etc as mine osmy ewxisting loom will work with it..Just a case of putting the new engine in and plugging it in to the existing loom..

But first i have to spend a shed load of money on it so it will have serious kick..

7th July 2007, 21:38

ye thats the problemo, i COULD keep my 1.4 and tune it OR i could drop a vts lump in and it wil automatically have much better performance than a 1.4 can ever have, and wil probably work out about the same price, if not cheaper

i have been trying to decide what to do since i bought the sax, its a big decision

7th July 2007, 21:47

lol..not more than a 1.4 would ever have..

My 1.4 will be built to take on std-ish vts's..

Its not all about power..lighten the flywheel and conrods etc and get it all balanced that will make a massive difference..

Along with a ported and polished head and a nice cam stuck in there with a remap all paired upto a nice close ratio gearbox..

Mine will be ATLEAST 100bhp, i'm hoping for more though..100bhp all lightened and balanced will sit all over a std 120bhp..

Tuned power is shit loads better..

That is all..

7th July 2007, 21:57

i would love to do that, its way more fun than dropping in a vts engine no doubt about it, but could work out about 5 times the price.

7th July 2007, 22:02

Ye but i would rather have a "special" and "respected" 1400 than a normal everyday 16v engine..

Nobody tunes the 1400's and i feel they are underestimated engines..obviously the 16v's can have more power extracted for a smaller price but everybody has them..

I just want the satisfaction of playing with a 16v on a track or whatever and them reading my little sticker on the back.."Only a 1400", while i sit with them..

In a sec i expect the 16v boys will come in all guns balzing but i have said it will be built to take on std-ish 16v's..Not 16v's with cams etc..

7th July 2007, 22:06

i know it would be way batter to have a cracking 1400, but on a student budget it just wont happen lol

how much would it cost to get a 1400 fully sorted with all that then?

like an induction kit, full exhaust, vtr inlet and throttle body, ported and polished, new cams, remap, lightened flywheel and conrods, balanced and close ratio gearbox?

7th July 2007, 22:10

Quite alot mate...If your on a budget then do the 16v conversion..

I am buying a seperate engine on monday so i can do the work on that in my spare time and keep the sax on the road..

It will take some time etc but will be worth it in the end..Then i may retire it from road use and have it as a track car only..Dont know yet..

But if your on a budget then 16v yours..Or do what i am doing and buy another 1400 engine and do bits as you can afford it..The engine i'm buying is only £70! lol.

Also i deliver pizza's at the moment for a living so i aint well off either..

7th July 2007, 22:12

end of day mil, tuning a 1360cc alloy block of any year will cost money, may be fun beating bigger cars etc but you could stick a VTR or S in have instant power and torque increase for less money.

The money you save could be used to get some tasty suspension bits and bobs.

You unlock the new ecu and use it with the new loom, you could make a conversion loom for use with the oe wiring loom but is just as much hassle.

argyle you would still need to rewire everything mate nothing is plug and play

7th July 2007, 22:15

I already have all my sus and brakes sorted..Just awaitng lots more power..

7th July 2007, 22:17

Quote:

like an induction kit, full exhaust, vtr inlet and throttle body, ported and polished, new cams, remap, lightened flywheel and conrods, balanced and close ratio gearbox?

Induction kit Simota from KAM with green filter 85
exhaust depends what you want anywere from 50-300
VTR inlet 50 tops
no point port and polishing the 1360 head the ports and valves are the same as a 1.1 near enough, stick a S1 or 1360 XSi head on bigger valves (inlet and exhaust as standard, inlet and exhaust ports are also considerably bigger)
cams up to 300 ( would need to get a new headgasket and headbolts to)
remap 450 from chipwizards
lightened and balanced fly i think 90 from qep on exchange
lightened crank and rods ring up prices vary from every tuner
close ration box XSi ones from 50 up to 200 for S1 boxes

7th July 2007, 22:22

Live Remap from a company called V tune - £200

XSI head is just cheating tbh..Sorting the std 1360cc alloy block head is the whole fun of it..Also porting and polishing is whats wanted to make wholes bigger..obviously..

7th July 2007, 22:29

But P-nut its your choice and you will go for the 16v conversion as its gona be cheaper to begin with..

do what you want at the end of the day..like me..I dont care what people think about 1360cc alloy block engines and i dont care what they think about what i'm doing..if they think i should go 16v then thats upto them but i live by a motto..its..

DARE TO BE DIFFERENT..

Thats not solely why either iam doing this as i said before i think these engines are very underestimated and yes the heads are restrictive in the later ones that are found in the westy's and furio's..This doesn't mean its a crap engine alltogether, PSA needed to fill a gap in the market so they restricted the TU3JP down so it fit nicely in between the VTR and 1.1 models..Thats all..

But do what you want to do..

7th July 2007, 22:30

How is it cheating? QEP proved for a fact that the quiksilver / furio head when ported, polished and gas flowed only just flowed a bit better than a standard S1 rallye or 1400 xsi head.

I dont see why you would want to waste money doing it when you can use a standard sporty head which is good as standard! Unless you are doing it to learn about it why?

IF you want to have a 120bhp furio do what a lad on ssc did complete S1 rallye top end, head, inlet, uprated injectors, s1 ecu, 4 branch etc. made 119bhp.

I have had a tuned 1.4 myself before running around 110bhp was a nice fun engine that could do VTRs but the vital thing is that it is missing a shed load of torque and needs the nuts raped off it to keep it going.

7th July 2007, 22:36

Because i want to keep with the standard head that comes on the westy engine..Also i expect getting hold of a rallye head or whatever is difficult and also the uprated injectors are probs a bastard..

I have made my plans and i am sticking with them..

Also whats wrong with having to work an engine? If you want low down grunt buy a diesel..

7th July 2007, 22:45

if the car is originally a single plug, you can buy a later 3 plug engine and as Mr Bush said you could rewire it. Or when putting a later engine into an early model, just use a single plug ecu and loom and it will plug straight into your existing car loom. I began trying to splice the later engine loom into my early vtr car loom and lost patience about 3 minutes into it so bought an early loom and it plugged right in and now works/runs perfectly. Albeit mine is a 2001-W late single plug vts into a 98-R vtr so the multi-plugs were different, I'm not 100% on how fitting a single plug loom onto a later 3 plug engine would work, but even if it wasn't a straight plug on job then it's fairly easy to chop the loom to get the correct sensors etc to fit and work.

7th July 2007, 22:46

I aint saying change your plans fairplay if you are doing it that way could prive a few people wrong and become a hero.

S1 rally heads, XSi heads etc are not hard to get hold of lol! uprated injector just use the ones that come with the rallye or xsi head if keeping relatively standard. Other than that ones from a 306 or 205 would work fine.

Like you say end of the day Mil needs to decided what to do himself and weigh up the costs of doing each. Got to remember the lad is in Ireland so insuring a car can be a massive ballache sometimes. Plus the amount of tuners over there compared to here aint exactly equal, unless he intended to come over to have it all done.

If you keep the oe head james have a word with jpsaxos brother he has kept the oe head but stuck a cam in just over 100bhp after remaps poos on vtrs from what ive been told

7th July 2007, 22:50

Yeah i will be keeping the OE head..My plans were to put a Kent PT40 cam in there and have it P+P'd..Was expecting about 100bhp..maybe a slight bit more as i said earlier in the thread after mapping etc with a decent air intake..I also have a 4 branch mani and a group N spec CAT back system.

With the bottom end all lightened and balanced and paired upto a VTS box or something abit more special it will go well i think..

8th July 2007, 10:33

I think my best bet would be to put the 8v engine out of a vtr in. It has a little more power as standard, that can be tuned as i get money. They are much easier to find, especially over here in ireland. and my insurance would probably be less than if i had a heavily modified 1.4 lump. the only thing that was putting me off either a heavily tuned 1.4 engine or a vts one was the insurance costs, and the vtr slots nicely between both of them

8th July 2007, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

Drop a tuned 1400 in it mate like i am doing..Getting a 1400 engine from the same year etc as mine osmy ewxisting loom will work with it..Just a case of putting the new engine in and plugging it in to the existing loom..

But first i have to spend a shed load of money on it so it will have serious kick..

there was a 1400 rally saxo in french cars a few months ago running 147bhp i think all lightened and balanced with itbs

8th July 2007, 18:57

James_Bristol = legend

that is all...