BHP Gains?

  1. Established Member Joined: Jun 2006 Wales Posts: 1486 1)2002 Saxo VTR 2)2003 106 GTI
    #1
    Hi all! I am thinking of putting a VTS engine in my VTR! I am thinking of getting it cammed, re-mapped, 4-2-1 manifold and a panel filter or Throttle Bodies! What bhp gains will I see from this?
  2. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2007 Sussex Posts: 3891 2x 106 GTi
    #2
    I was thinkink about gettin a VTR/S engine conversion sometime in the distant future lol. I'm not really expert on this but I'd expect you'd get around 150BHP+
  3. Established Member Joined: Jun 2006 Wales Posts: 1486 1)2002 Saxo VTR 2)2003 106 GTI
    #3
    It dont look too hard to do as long as you get the same year engine as your car so you dont have to mess around with the loom! I am hoping to get mine in 2-3 weeks!
  4. Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 Ireland Posts: 282 Saxo Vts
    #4
    A Vts engine cammed and remaped with all breading mods your looking at 150-155bhp.Also there is a big difference between a panel filter and throttle bodies mate
  5. Frequent Poster Joined: Aug 2006 Solihull Posts: 798 RX8 231
    #5
    Throttle bodies will replace the whole induction breathin system..meanin no need for a panel filter lol
  6. Established Member Joined: Jun 2006 Wales Posts: 1486 1)2002 Saxo VTR 2)2003 106 GTI
    #6
    Yeah i know, thing that is putting me off throttle bodies is that you have to mess about with them to get them running right!
  7. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #7
    depends on cam profile. typically most use catcam 708s which produce 155-157bhp on average.

    throttle bodies basically allow you to run wilder cams, depends on budget but a throttle bodied engine can be between 160-200+ bhp depending on budget
  8. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #8
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Squills_Saxo View Post
    Yeah i know, thing that is putting me off throttle bodies is that you have to mess about with them to get them running right!
    not really, more carbs than throttle bodies, a properly set up engine on bodies will run perfectly for ages without my work.
  9. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 e-hollywood Posts: 17160 toyata hilux
    #9
    the other thing being a few grand
  10. Established Member Joined: Jul 2004 Stockport/Sheffield United Kingdom (England) Posts: 1569 RS 182
    #10
    your looking at 150-160 mate, gains vary from car to car.
  11. Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp
    #11
    u would b better of puttin a turbo on urs for 4000 u wil c 180-210 easy dependin wot boost u runnin and that would eat a vts on bodies.bodies r good my mate oli got them but lack alot of torque as wetre in the vtr u have alot of torque
  12. Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Glasgow United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 26097 Chelski Traktor
    #12
    vts makes/develops more torque than a vtr....
  13. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr View Post
    u would b better of puttin a turbo on urs for 4000 u wil c 180-210 easy dependin wot boost u runnin and that would eat a vts on bodies.bodies r good my mate oli got them but lack alot of torque as wetre in the vtr u have alot of torque
    sorry the poor english makes this incredibly hard to read.

    I think your saying a turbo will eat bodies.

    on what grounds do you base this? a high powered NA engine will give alot smoother power delivery, so on a track it will perform better.
  14. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS
    #14
    Bodies are mental!

    Nothing like hearing a car on bodies revving like feck!

    End of..
  15. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 Blackburn Posts: 12035 GTI/VTS/VXR/S-line
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr View Post
    u would b better of puttin a turbo on urs for 4000 u wil c 180-210 easy dependin wot boost u runnin and that would eat a vts on bodies.bodies r good my mate oli got them but lack alot of torque as wetre in the vtr u have alot of torque
    throttle bodies would be better than a turbo imo...okay with bodies the engine would need re mapping every 6 months to get the max out of them, but they are a lot more reliable than a turbo kit!!

    and they also sound a lot better lol....with bodies you can pust 170/180 brake easily!! depending on the others mods to the engine such as cams and breathing mods

  16. Saxperience Addict Joined: Oct 2006 Inside Your Girlfriend Posts: 12190 Fabia vRS
    #16
    Superchanger FTW sounds so much better lol
  17. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #17
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    ...okay with bodies the engine would need re mapping every 6 months to get the max out of them,
    you dont need to remap an engine every 6 months on bodies!!!!!!!

    the map doesnt change, its only occasionally you may need to tweak the balance of the bodies, but its minimal compaired to an old carb set up
  18. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2006 Ashford Posts: 25611 LY R26
    #18
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr View Post
    u would b better of puttin a turbo on urs for 4000 u wil c 180-210 easy dependin wot boost u runnin and that would eat a vts on bodies.bodies r good my mate oli got them but lack alot of torque as wetre in the vtr u have alot of torque
    VTR and VTS produce the same torque as standard.

    just saying slap a turbo on it and you should see 180 bhp is a bit of a general guess isn't it?
  19. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Soulless View Post
    VTR and VTS produce the same torque as standard.
    no they dont.
  20. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2006 Ashford Posts: 25611 LY R26
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85 View Post
    no they dont.
    in another thread someone stated that the VTR and VTS have the same torque figures. sorry.
  21. Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Glasgow United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 26097 Chelski Traktor
    #21
    nein as above the vts makes more.

    Not really sure where the rumour about vtrs having more torque ever came from but its a popular one. Not true but popular
  22. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #22
    What is the VTR's lb/ft figure? I believe the 106 GTI's / Saxo VTS's is 107 lb/ft.
  23. Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Glasgow United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 26097 Chelski Traktor
    #23
    vtr 100 lb/ft
  24. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #24
    Thanks Scott.

    So why do so many people harp on about the torque being the important measurement of a car's performance? There's obviously only a small difference in those 2 figures, yet, the 16 valve will out-perform its smaller brother quite considerably.
  25. Regular Poster Joined: Oct 2006 Manchester Posts: 440 VTR '52.
    #25
    I never understand why people would spend any more than £2000 on increasing power on a saxo. It's nuts.

    £2000 will get you an old evo, imprezza, supra or similar. You're looking then, at 250bhp minimum. No matter what you do to a saxo, 200bhp, 300bhp even etc, it will never match a bigger, better car as far as power output, handling, and future modifying plans. Good yes, but not as good as others.

    Plus more likely to get your dick licked in a decent car! lol

    Don't get me wrong, I do love my saxo, but I'd never spend that much money; after all, it's just a saxo!. Why spend £4000-5000 upping the bhp to 180-200bhp on the saxo, when there are cars out there for that price running 350+ bhp.
  26. Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Wirral Posts: 606 mk5 Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra
    #26
    I think the rumor started as the VTR's seem to have more Torque lower down where as the VTS has to be reved.
  27. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Yorkshire Posts: 5415 Saxo
    #27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mardon View Post
    I think the rumor started as the VTR's seem to have more Torque lower down where as the VTS has to be reved.
    Ive driven both and the VTS feels shed loads more powerful all round....

    my VTR pulls but its not silly quick....
  28. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #28
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mardon View Post
    I think the rumor started as the VTR's seem to have more Torque lower down where as the VTS has to be reved.
    I think its because lots of 8v owners didnt want to admit they had a shit engine
  29. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS
    #29
    8v's aren't shit ryan..

    16v's are just more efficient...
  30. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #30
    Hehe...
  31. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #31
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by James_Bristol View Post
    8v's aren't shit ryan..

    16v's are just more efficient...
    were talking engines here james not sewing machines
  32. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #32
    LoooooL!
  33. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2006 Kent Posts: 3669 Fiat Seicento, MK2 Furio 2000 X, Pug 206
    #33
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FILVTR View Post
    I never understand why people would spend any more than £2000 on increasing power on a saxo. It's nuts.

    £2000 will get you an old evo, imprezza, supra or similar. You're looking then, at 250bhp minimum. No matter what you do to a saxo, 200bhp, 300bhp even etc, it will never match a bigger, better car as far as power output, handling, and future modifying plans. Good yes, but not as good as others.

    Plus more likely to get your dick licked in a decent car! lol

    Don't get me wrong, I do love my saxo, but I'd never spend that much money; after all, it's just a saxo!. Why spend £4000-5000 upping the bhp to 180-200bhp on the saxo, when there are cars out there for that price running 350+ bhp.

    Why buy a prepackaged car, people like to be different.
    I know I would love a throttle bodied VTS over many standard more powerful cars
  34. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #34
    Absolutely!

    The Saxo's and 106s are soooo much fun to drive. If you can make them quicker, they're even more fun!
  35. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #35
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    Absolutely!

    The Saxo's and 106s are soooo much fun to drive. If you can make them quicker, they're even more fun!
    id like to be able to comment on a fast one but my project shell is still o stands as i cant find any one who can weld
  36. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #36
    Oh. What welding exactly?
  37. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #37
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    Oh. What welding exactly?
    need a plate welding on the inner wing, i found rust and cut it out
  38. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can
    #38
    Ah. What's that got to do with 'fast?'

    What exactly are you up to?
  39. Established Member Joined: Jun 2007 Bristol - St George Posts: 2364 Mk2 Saxo VTS
    #39
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FILVTR View Post
    I never understand why people would spend any more than £2000 on increasing power on a saxo. It's nuts.

    £2000 will get you an old evo, imprezza, supra or similar. You're looking then, at 250bhp minimum. No matter what you do to a saxo, 200bhp, 300bhp even etc, it will never match a bigger, better car as far as power output, handling, and future modifying plans. Good yes, but not as good as others.

    Plus more likely to get your dick licked in a decent car! lol

    Don't get me wrong, I do love my saxo, but I'd never spend that much money; after all, it's just a saxo!. Why spend £4000-5000 upping the bhp to 180-200bhp on the saxo, when there are cars out there for that price running 350+ bhp.
    I can see where your coming from........yeh its nice to have a powefull saxo but tryin to push it over 200bhp is just insane......yeh will be nice but have to spend alot of money on it to get it there, and as stated in quote theres more cars out there that have this sort of power standard........though i prefer a saxo over any othe small car really

    But once ur pushing near the 200bhp mark and maybe u say u want more power, your gonna have to go into the really detailed part of things like how much more power can this cars chassis handle.......im sure it wud be fine with 200bhp but its alot to ask from a little saxo
  40. Frequent Poster Joined: Aug 2006 Solihull Posts: 798 RX8 231
    #40
    People dont buy evos for insurance/servicing/petrol costs

    A VTS/GTI running 160bhp from cams and all the necessary breathing mods would not drink for how fast it was unless you cained it

    An evo/scoob drinks regardless, and has to be serviced every 3k, and has big repair bills!
  41. Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 A farm shed in Aylesbury Posts: 14916 Corolla AE86 Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
    #41
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VTR-Chris-VTR View Post
    But once ur pushing near the 200bhp mark and maybe u say u want more power, your gonna have to go into the really detailed part of things like how much more power can this cars chassis handle.......im sure it wud be fine with 200bhp but its alot to ask from a little saxo
    The Saxo F2 cars cope fine with nearly 214bhp. At that level though the whole car does have to be looked at if you want it to perform as going fast has little to do with bhp and a lot to do with the chassis
  42. Regular Poster Joined: Oct 2006 Manchester Posts: 440 VTR '52.
    #42
    Yeah I bet, as they're not designed for that sort of power.

    Still getting an evo 8 though, can't chuffin' wait...
    early next year...
  43. Saxperience Addict Joined: May 2006 Costa del Wales Posts: 12393 Spam Wagon
    #43
    I think that having a saxo/pug with stupied amounts of power is great,they are so much fun too dirve and also you can wipe the grin off other people who just say *"its only a saxo"*

    Saxo power lol