I need a new VTS engine quick!

1. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

   #1 30th July 2007, 12:23

   as some of you may know, I've been in the process of fitting a P&P head and newmans cams. Well...
   
   I finished it yesterday. Started and idled fine albeit with quite a loud knocking! I was told it was the followers just wearing in and it would quieten down after a bit. So I left it to idle for about 45 mins. The noise didn't quieten!
   
   I took it for a little test drive. After about 8 miles there was a massive bang, a sh1t load of blue smoke out the back and oil all over the road!
   
   I pulled over and opened the bonnet to find a fookin great big hole in the crank case in the front at the bottom.
   
   What shoul I do next? (whatever it is I'll be paying someone else to do it for me! I don't trust myself anymore!)
   
   1- new engine and fit my P&P head and cams
   2- send it to some company to fit a brand new TB'd engine
   3- other
   
   please help guys. I'm absoluteld gutted!
   
   Kev
2. Mikey Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 Blackburn Posts: 12035 GTI/VTS/VXR/S-line

   #2 30th July 2007, 12:27

   ahhh fucking hell dude!! thats a gutter!!!
   
   do you deffo need a new engine??
   
   id go with option 1
3. williamsvts Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 northumberland Posts: 7693 pulsar gtir, mk4 astra sxi

   #3 30th July 2007, 12:29

   why was it doing that after you fitted the head??? something wasnt done right.
4. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

   #4 30th July 2007, 12:30

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Mikey ahhh fucking hell dude!! thats a gutter!!! do you deffo need a new engine?? id go with option 1

   well I need the bottom end of the engine. thats where the pistons, conrods etc sit.
   
   only thing is, I dont want to do it myself.
   
   plus the head may have been damaged when it went bang!
5. MaRiO89 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS

   #5 30th July 2007, 12:31

   Oh dear..
   
   Sounds like the timing was out..way out..
6. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

   #6 30th July 2007, 12:31

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by williamsvts why was it doing that after you fitted the head??? something wasnt done right.

   I agree. I wasn't convinced the cam timing was right but i had a mechanic with me and he said it was ok.
   
   I'm not so sure!
7. MaRiO89 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS

   #7 30th July 2007, 12:34

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by RAFkev I agree. I wasn't convinced the cam timing was right but i had a mechanic with me and he said it was ok. I'm not so sure!

   
   Must have been out..The knocking you heard would have probably been the valves hitting the top of the pistons..After a while something has to give and i guess a conrod was under far too much stress..
8. Mikey Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 Blackburn Posts: 12035 GTI/VTS/VXR/S-line

   #8 30th July 2007, 12:36

   i think you should rape you mecanic friend
9. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

   #9 30th July 2007, 12:39

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Mikey i think you should rape you mecanic friend

   unfortunately he is a member of this site! I wont name him tho!
10. Mikey Saxperience Addict Joined: Nov 2006 Blackburn Posts: 12035 GTI/VTS/VXR/S-line

    #10 30th July 2007, 12:40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RAFkev unfortunately he is a member of this site! I wont name him tho!

    name and shame
    
    will make you feel better lol
11. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

    #11 30th July 2007, 12:43

    worst thing is, he's a sound lad. just not sure on his knowledge of engine work anymore!
12. MaRiO89 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS

    #12 30th July 2007, 13:00

    Name and shame imo..He may do the same to someone else's car..
13. Japman Saxperience Addict Joined: May 2006 Costa del Wales Posts: 12393 Spam Wagon

    #13 30th July 2007, 13:05

    Number 3.all depends on how much uve got to spend.........if your loaded get a bike engine in there
    
    Also kick your mate up the arse
14. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

    #14 30th July 2007, 13:24

    seems a bit weird, Ive had a belt go at 8krpm before and it mashed the piston crown and bent all the valves, but never damaged a rod.
    
    Has the conrod broken or has a big end come loose?
15. Saxy1 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2006 Middlesex Posts: 6541 EVO FQ400

    #15 30th July 2007, 13:24

    go with option 1 mate, but it depends how much you have to spend, i hope you get it sorted asap
16. Joesnow Frequent Poster Joined: May 2006 Posts: 691 Mk 1 VTS poseidon blue

    #16 31st July 2007, 00:57

    Nightmare! Gutted for you! Thought the bottom ends were meant to be bomb proof? Post some pics up of the wounds! The throttle bodied engine sounds like a good plan if you’ve got the cash!… otherwise option 1
17. MaRiO89 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7705 Saxo VTS

    #17 31st July 2007, 01:27

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Joesnow Nightmare! Gutted for you! Thought the bottom ends were meant to be bomb proof? Post some pics up of the wounds! The throttle bodied engine sounds like a good plan if you’ve got the cash! otherwise option 1

    They are bomb proof when the timing is right and the pistons aren't smashing the valves all to hell..
    
    Think about it..The conrod is taking most of the stress when the piston gets forced up and down by the spark in the combustion chamber and rotation of the crank..If the piston cant go up as far as it should then there will be a point where something has to give..it seems that the conrod couldnt cope with all this stress that its been put under and broke..
    
    You will have to try hard to break a rod or crank on a TU engine without some serious neglect..
18. turbo_dave Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2007 Down south Posts: 105 E36 M3 3.0 & 2.1 Mondeo w/Eaton M62

    #18 31st July 2007, 08:14

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by James_Bristol They are bomb proof when the timing is right and the pistons aren't smashing the valves all to hell.. Think about it..The conrod is taking most of the stress when the piston gets forced up and down by the spark in the combustion chamber and rotation of the crank..If the piston cant go up as far as it should then there will be a point where something has to give..it seems that the conrod couldnt cope with all this stress that its been put under and broke.. You will have to try hard to break a rod or crank on a TU engine without some serious neglect..

    Oh goodie, a good old fashioned witch hunt with some people who haven't got a clue what they're talking about
    
    Firstly,
    
    

    Quote:

    Sounds like the timing was out..way out..

    The engine wouldn't run, full stop. Slightly out and there's bugger all compression and the engine won't start. The charge will be blown straight back up the inlet and it'll be backfiring through the throttle body. Not likely when it:
    
    

    Quote:

    Started and idled fine

    Most likely is that you've blocked an oil way or dropped something into the crankcase. A set of pistons will make mincemeat of some valves the second they hit them; they will NOT carry on hitting them loud enough to cause a distressing knocking sound to the point that the motor will launch a rod.
    
    Unfortunately it's something you can now put down to experiance, so go find yourself another motor and start again
19. samcook Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2005 evesham, worcs United Kingdom (England) Posts: 3813 197 cup

    #19 31st July 2007, 15:25

    my friends got a 61k 106 gti engine for sale £300 on gearbox, its advertised in the forsale section
20. belly_VTS Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2006 Co Durham(north east) Posts: 626 cammed vts, (rest in pieces) corsa vxr - 340bhp

    #20 31st July 2007, 18:17

    cant believe the amount of trouble ya having with this car kev! have you taking the head off yet to see what state the heads in?
21. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

    #21 31st July 2007, 20:40

    I know! I'm having a nightmare! don't think it could have gone any worse! I haven't taken the head off yet.
    
    I just want to rid my hands of it!
    
    Thought i would save a few quid by doing it myself but sods law and that!
    
    I would rather pay someone else to do the work now rather than do it myself.
    
    Loads of ppl are telling me to just get rid and buy a fast jap car. But i want a fast saxo!
    
    
    Does anybody rate cituning? They can supply an engine, P&P it, cam it, and re-map it. Not sure how much dollar yet tho!
22. belly_VTS Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2006 Co Durham(north east) Posts: 626 cammed vts, (rest in pieces) corsa vxr - 340bhp

    #22 31st July 2007, 20:46

    i dont think many people rate cituning on here mate.
23. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

    #23 31st July 2007, 20:48

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by belly_VTS i dont think many people rate cituning on here mate.

    where else can i get a new engine with all the good stuff readymade?
24. Gabbastard Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390

    #24 31st July 2007, 21:11

    I hate to be a total Vulture, but Id be interested in the monged heed.
25. Sean Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2005 St Andrews United Kingdom (Scotland) Posts: 7384 Green mk1 vtr/s and Focus zetec

    #25 31st July 2007, 21:33

    Kev speak to Tam (axo16v) on SSC, he'll sell you a complete (and usually very mint) vts engine and gearbox complete with open coded ecu and all wiring+hoses etc for around £700 delivered.
26. clarkey2r L-plater Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 36

    #26 1st August 2007, 12:47

    Quote:

    Kev speak to Tam (axo16v) on SSC, he'll sell you a complete (and usually very mint) vts engine and gearbox complete with open coded ecu and all wiring+hoses etc for around £700 delivered.

    are these for both mk1 and 2?
27. boz Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2005 somewhere on this planet, doing something..... around northumberland or in the middle of the sea Posts: 8774 Mk2 VTS track mk1 turbo vts scooby engined 2CV

    #27 1st August 2007, 15:21

    clarkey2r: your need a single plug ecu motor for a mk1
    
    nightmare mate.
    i would agree with turbodave. a piston would make mince meat of a valve stem, it would cuase the rod, crank etc to snap and break loose of the motor. sound like something is in there that shouldnt be, or that it had no oil and just cease / welded itself to the cylinder bore.
    
    depneds on how much cash you have as to what you want to do.
    
    i would just have a bash at doing it again your self, best way to learn is from your mistakes, i have made plenty lol.
    nothing to say that some else could do it again.
28. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

    #28 2nd August 2007, 17:53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sean Kev speak to Tam (axo16v) on SSC, he'll sell you a complete (and usually very mint) vts engine and gearbox complete with open coded ecu and all wiring+hoses etc for around £700 delivered.

    Cheers sean.
    
    I've just put this same thread up on SSC. hopefully your friend can sort me out.
    
    I will take the head off next weekend to have a look at the mess I've made!
    
    I'll try and get some pics up on here. Not promising tho as I'm worse with computers than I am with car engines! LOL
29. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

    #29 9th September 2008, 23:34

    I started this thread 13 months ago!
    I don't know if many of the guys who contributed then are still around!
    So much for getting an engine quick!
    
    Ross at RCD Performance is sorting me out.
    
    He is picking up a 50k single plug 'S' engine for me wednesday and coming to my house to begin spannering on thursday.
    
    All things going to plan, he should be finished by friday evening.
    
    Can't wait.
    
    Kev
30. user_22085 Frequent Poster Joined: Mar 2008 Sheffield Posts: 574 98'SaxoVTR 88' R5 GTT

    #30 9th September 2008, 23:44

    Good news mate hope it all works out
31. turbotom Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Leamington Spa Posts: 1852 Black Saxo VTRS Land Rover Discovery x2 S1 106 R

    #31 10th September 2008, 00:27

    just read the thread mate.... gutted bout the first one!! it could have been anythin to be fair... the best thing to do is strip the old block den and see if u can see the problem!!
32. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

    #32 10th September 2008, 02:06

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by turbotom the best thing to do is strip the old block den and see if u can see the problem!!

    Yeah, thats exactly what will happen fella. Hopefully the P&P head and PH3 cams from the old engine will be undamaged so they can be fitted to the new engine.
    
    Everyone keep your fingers crossed for me.
    
    Kev
33. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

    #33 15th September 2008, 17:24

    Nearly there!
    
    Ross from RCD Performance is turning up on wednesday to do the engine change with the odd hinderance from me!
    
    Fingers crossed for the cams and head still being usable.
    May go for one of these "Predator" ECU's too. Ross is going to demo one for me. (not quite sure how that will work!) although 700 of the queens english pounds is quite a bit me thinks.
    
    I have just booked the M.O.T. (Moment Of Truth!) for monday.
    
    I'm getting proper excited now.
34. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

    #34 15th September 2008, 17:24

    Nearly there!
    
    Ross from RCD Performance is turning up on wednesday to do the engine change with the odd hinderance from me!
    
    Fingers crossed for the cams and head still being usable.
    May go for one of these "Predator" ECU's too. Ross is going to demo one for me. (not quite sure how that will work!) although 700 of the queens english pounds is quite a bit me thinks.
    
    I have just booked the M.O.T. (Moment Of Truth!) for monday.
    
    I'm getting proper excited now.
35. RAFkev Established Member Joined: Nov 2005 Wirral Posts: 2198

    #35 15th September 2008, 17:28

    not sure how i double posted!!
    
    Sorry
36. onzakieron Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Durham - Newcastle Posts: 1208 Saxo VTRRRRR

    #36 15th September 2008, 23:27

    Nice one mate, good to see you have faith still 13 months down the line!