What would be the best to go for...

1. p-nut Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Ireland Posts: 542 mk1 vts

   #1 9th August 2007, 23:00

   What would be the best overall engine to go for taking fuel economy, insurance cost, ease of fitting and how easy they are to get into account?
   
   i pretty much have a crashed 106 gti sorted already. It was rear ended so i have all the bits i need for a full engine conversion anyway, but i just wanted every1 elses opinion.
   
   1. 1.4 8v
   2. 1.6 8v
   3. 1.6 16v
   4. 1.4 8v from 106 xsi
   5. 1.6 8v from xsi
   6. 1.3 8v from s1 rallye
   7. 1.6 8v from s2 rallye
   
   what would ye go for?
2. frankie Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye

   #2 9th August 2007, 23:04

   well imo if youve got every thing from the gti, mite as well just use that.
3. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

   #3 9th August 2007, 23:06

   1.3 8v from a s1 rallye. if u can get hold of one. u planning on doin any engine mods?
4. Mike_08 Established Member Joined: Oct 2006 Birmingham Posts: 2401 Subaru Impreza WRX

   #4 9th August 2007, 23:06

   go ahead 1.6 16v
5. p-nut Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Ireland Posts: 542 mk1 vts

   #5 9th August 2007, 23:07

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by frankie640 well imo if youve got every thing from the gti, mite as well just use that.

   ye but i could make a profit on it and other parts and get something more sensible....bearing in mind that i am 18
6. p-nut Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Ireland Posts: 542 mk1 vts

   #6 9th August 2007, 23:07

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr 1.3 8v from a s1 rallye. if u can get hold of one. u planning on doin any engine mods?

   depends what i end up with i guess
7. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

   #7 9th August 2007, 23:11

   1.3 rallye think they are 105bhp standard try to get the box with it aswel. jus do air filter, manifold, cams ,head work, exhaust system wil go like f**k and not many people do them so would be quite rare
8. p-nut Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Ireland Posts: 542 mk1 vts

   #8 9th August 2007, 23:12

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr 1.3 rallye think they are 105bhp standard try to get the box with it aswel. jus do air filter, manifold, cams ,head work, exhaust system wil go like f**k and not many people do them so would be quite rare

   the strange thing is i got a cheaper quote on the s2 rallye so id probably be more tempted by that one. but i guess tax would be a lot less on the 1.3, and fuel economy may be better
9. frankie Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye

   #9 9th August 2007, 23:13

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by p-nut ye but i could make a profit on it and other parts and get something more sensible....bearing in mind that i am 18

   do that and buy a vtr engine, think hiflowheads had a brand new one "straigh outa the factory" for 750 nug.
10. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #10 9th August 2007, 23:15

    its weird how it all works out i.e a vtr is group 7 insurance but my mate had a 1.2 16v punto and its group 8 but the vtr is quicker. think the vts c2 is only group 8 aswel
11. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #11 9th August 2007, 23:16

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr 1.3 rallye think they are 105bhp standard try to get the box with it aswel. jus do air filter, manifold, cams ,head work, exhaust system wil go like f**k and not many people do them so would be quite rare

    
    not been on the rallye reg then
    
    id go for the s2 engine if any from the listm more scope for tuning.
    
    as you dont really appear to want to go 16v like i would
12. p-nut Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Ireland Posts: 542 mk1 vts

    #12 9th August 2007, 23:17

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frankie640 do that and buy a vtr engine, think hiflowheads had a brand new one "straigh outa the factory" for 750 nug.

    yeah thats a good idea, but its a bit boring dont ya think? if i was doing a conversion, id like to do something different if i wasnt going for a 16v. something that nobody else has. im tempted by the xsi or rallye engines due to the fact that they will happily rev to 7k+
13. p-nut Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Ireland Posts: 542 mk1 vts

    #13 9th August 2007, 23:18

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr its weird how it all works out i.e a vtr is group 7 insurance but my mate had a 1.2 16v punto and its group 8 but the vtr is quicker. think the vts c2 is only group 8 aswel

    c2 would be a much safer car, and not as many of them robbed
14. frankie Saxperience Addict Joined: Apr 2006 Frome, down deepest, darkest zummerset Posts: 12971 VTRallye

    #14 9th August 2007, 23:19

    but you could tune it up a shit load
15. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #15 9th August 2007, 23:19

    depends wot your lookin for if u want a car that is gonna be quick of the line and good on petrol go for a vtr engine with mods but then be prepared to be beaten by a vts at about 80mph but they will be doin alot more petrol than you and payin alot more insurance
16. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #16 9th August 2007, 23:20

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr depends wot your lookin for if u want a car that is gonna be quick of the line and good on petrol go for a vtr engine with mods but then be prepared to be beaten by a vts at about 80mph but they will be doin alot more petrol than you and payin alot more insurance

    vtr better off the line than a vts?? lol....
17. p-nut Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Ireland Posts: 542 mk1 vts

    #17 9th August 2007, 23:21

    so would a vtr have the best tuning potential out of the 8v engines?
18. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #18 9th August 2007, 23:22

    yeh a modded vtr wil beat a cammed vts of the line
19. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #19 9th August 2007, 23:23

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr yeh a modded vtr wil beat a cammed vts of the line

    ah thats going to have to go down in history as one of the most laughable comments ever.
20. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #20 9th August 2007, 23:23

    well my vtr used 2 b qiuck even colin who done it dint no why it went so well and didnt cost alot ever. i used to get 450 miles to a tank
21. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #21 9th August 2007, 23:25

    u dont no bcoz u havent seen it. i done a 15.1 down the pod
22. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #22 9th August 2007, 23:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by p-nut so would a vtr have the best tuning potential out of the 8v engines?

    nein, imo s2 rallye would.
    
    slightly different head, seem to be easyer to get power out of the newer 8v heads fitted to vtrs.
    
    i know of a 145bhp 8v on bodies (s2)
23. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #23 9th August 2007, 23:26

    seen cammed cars running different times aswell.
    
    i do find the whole idiocy of the 8v producing more torque etc.. highly amusing at how often it pops up
24. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #24 9th August 2007, 23:26

    bodies sound the bollox but lack alot of torque. they are good for tracks tho v good but dont rate them that much on the road
25. p-nut Frequent Poster Joined: May 2007 Ireland Posts: 542 mk1 vts

    #25 9th August 2007, 23:27

    cool so it looks like its gonna be between the vtr and s2 engines then, just have to try and locate one...although a 16v is stil verrry tempting as i have everything
    
    and this thred wasnt started to argue about whether a vtr or vts is quicker off the line
26. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #26 9th August 2007, 23:27

    ive neva said it produces more torque tho have i
27. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #27 9th August 2007, 23:28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr bodies sound the bollox but lack alot of torque. they are good for tracks tho v good but dont rate them that much on the road

    they produce fine torque, they just dont produce as much as a boosted engine will.
    
    they perform very well in the real world though.
    
    peter86s car isnt slow thats for sure.
28. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #28 9th August 2007, 23:29

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by p-nut cool so it looks like its gonna be between the vtr and s2 engines then, just have to try and locate one...although a 16v is stil verrry tempting as i have everything and this thred wasnt started to argue about whether a vtr or vts is quicker off the line

    having everything the 16v is by far the better option, it has everything there as a donor car you need for the conversion.
    
    you just dont seem to want to go 16v
29. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #29 9th August 2007, 23:29

    i dunno how hard it is to find a s2 engine i think a vtr should be relatively easy engine to get hold of
30. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #30 9th August 2007, 23:29

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr ive neva said it produces more torque tho have i

    said a vtr is better off the line than a 16v. and thats before you started talking about cams etc...
31. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #31 9th August 2007, 23:31

    my mate oli has a vts on bodies its 165-170 bhp but torque figures are roughly 130-140 which is a bit poor
32. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #32 9th August 2007, 23:33

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr my mate oli has a vts on bodies its 165-170 bhp but torque figures are roughly 130-140 which is a bit poor

    as said theyre perfectly fine, its only when compaired to a boosted engine they are down. its the spread of the torque and the curve produced not just the ammount.
    
    josh on here has a very interesting torque graph.
33. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #33 9th August 2007, 23:34

    obv a standard vtr is not quicker than a standard vts.
    
    ie my mate oli had a vts with cams head work manifold exhaust system
    
    my mate ash had a 106 gti cammed with a manifold and exhaust system and i used to do both of them of the line up til 80mph then they would come back past me
34. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #34 9th August 2007, 23:39

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr obv a standard vtr is not quicker than a standard vts. ie my mate oli had a vts with cams head work manifold exhaust system my mate ash had a 106 gti cammed with a manifold and exhaust system and i used to do both of them of the line up til 80mph then they would come back past me

    and they are both michael schumacher...??
    
    the whole i raced stuff is so inaccurate as it depends on driver ability.
    it depends on to many things, you can also say cams, what cams an 8v on a piper 285 may produce power in a better way to a 16v on say a set of 270s.
    
    as said your earlier comments appeared to be sayong the 8v std will be better off the line ( a comment i might add i see far to often from vtr owners talking shite) * i own a 8v before people jump on the bandwagon *
35. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #35 9th August 2007, 23:45

    yeh i no but figures on a bit of paper dont mean alot aswel. theres a whole lot of different things to do with it. but they are both good drivers. see there is never no way round this you could have 2 cars exactly the same engine and mods and perform different. some say take it to track welll yeh but some cars wil be better for tracks some better for 1/4mile etc etc
36. Yates Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2005 Pompey/Darlo Posts: 31546 MK1 - 1.1 Animal

    #36 9th August 2007, 23:46

    ryan knows his shit, no point arguing.
37. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #37 9th August 2007, 23:49

    dw i no a fair bit aswel. not arguin. call it gettin a point across lol
38. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #38 9th August 2007, 23:49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr some say take it to track welll yeh but some cars wil be better for tracks some better for 1/4mile etc etc

    something i tried to explain earlier and many people thought that it was shite, and couldnt understand that different cam profiles will behave differently to in gear accelleration (such as on a track) to that of flat starts of the 1/4mile.
    
    gear ratios also have a large part to play etc.
    
    when modifying a car you can bring in so many variables that will change the characteristics of how a car behaves.
39. R66CE_O_vtr Regular Poster Joined: Mar 2007 chelmsford, essex Posts: 304 lupo turbo 330bhp

    #39 9th August 2007, 23:51

    exactly
40. jpsaxo Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast

    #40 9th August 2007, 23:55

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr yeh a modded vtr wil beat a cammed vts of the line

    Hahahahahhahaha, sorry dude!
    
    LIGHTEN UP, unless it had a very short box and sticky tyres theres not a chance of that happening.
41. jpsaxo Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2005 Sydney Posts: 8525 Mango Westcoast

    #41 10th August 2007, 00:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85 josh on here has a very interesting torque graph.

    130ish from 2.5k - 7,250k - not bad hey!