Engine Management of a Turbo'd VTS

29th August 2008, 12:14

There is probably a simple answer to my question, making it sound like a really stupid question, but i dont think it has been covered on here yet, so here goes:

I know a Turbo'd engine needs its own engine management and that it is achieved by using a Dastek ECU and having it live mapped to your individual engine, but what do you do when you have finished building the engine and turbo setup and you want to start the car for the first time? Do you just leave the standard ECU in, plug a Dastek one (with no mappings) in, or what?

This is a long way off yet but its something i would like to know about at this stage so i can plan around it if needs be.

Thanks

29th August 2008, 12:25

id rather use a proper standalone such as omex, dta, KMS.

your mapper will load a base map which will be safe as houses, nad then build up the map from there.

choose whichever your mapper is most comfortable with

29th August 2008, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjm300

id rather use a proper standalone such as omex, dta, KMS.

your mapper will load a base map which will be safe as houses, nad then build up the map from there.

choose whichever your mapper is most comfortable with

So does this mean i wont be able to start it up in my garage - i.e i will have to take it to the mapper and hope it starts first time there? Or, can i get the ECU mapped by the mapper with a base map, then fit it and try it myself?

29th August 2008, 12:34

you would be able to start it first time in your garage, if a base map is loaded, then you'd just chuck a load more fuel in across the map to be on the safe side, and then you could run it to make sure there are no leaks. at idle conditions there shouldnt be much boost, so by chucking more fuel in you shouldnt see any leaning out.
if you have a a/f ratio display, which you should have anyway to be safe, then you can monitor that to make sure everythings running ok.

29th August 2008, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjm300

you would be able to start it first time in your garage, if a base map is loaded, then you'd just chuck a load more fuel in across the map to be on the safe side, and then you could run it to make sure there are no leaks. at idle conditions there shouldnt be much boost, so by chucking more fuel in you shouldnt see any leaning out.
if you have a a/f ratio display, which you should have anyway to be safe, then you can monitor that to make sure everythings running ok.

OK, sounds easy enough - get a map loaded which runs rich just to make sure it starts and runs, then get it down to be properly mapped.

As for the A/F ratio display (im guessing this is air/fuel ratio?) - how do you connect one of those up? I have seen these sort of computer type things in skylines etc which have different displays etc on them, but i have never known how they connect up? Do they link into the ECU some how?

29th August 2008, 12:41

Hi mate,

I make the Predator ECU, and I'm in Southampton - you're more than welcome to pop over for a cuppa-tea and look at what I'm doing and see the ECU, and have a chat about what you might need?

Andy

29th August 2008, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

Hi mate,

I make the Predator ECU, and I'm in Southampton - you're more than welcome to pop over for a cuppa-tea and look at what I'm doing and see the ECU, and have a chat about what you might need?

Andy

Wicked mate, thanks for the offer, will take you up on that if you dont mind? However, if you look at my other thread (http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=169502) you will see i am miles away from even finishing stripping the engine out, and the length of time it takes me to put it all back in will be determined by my cash flow, so the ECU is very distant at the moment. At this stage i am just trying to get an idea of how i will be able to start the engine for the first time.

Do you have any info on the "Predator ECU" - website or something? Cheers.

29th August 2008, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcheater

OK, sounds easy enough - get a map loaded which runs rich just to make sure it starts and runs, then get it down to be properly mapped.

As for the A/F ratio display (im guessing this is air/fuel ratio?) - how do you connect one of those up? I have seen these sort of computer type things in skylines etc which have different displays etc on them, but i have never known how they connect up? Do they link into the ECU some how?

the a/f ratio sensor goes where your lambda sensor is and monitors the amount of unburnt fuel in the exhaust.

its one of the most useful sensors you could have on a boosted engine.

these can either be standalone applications, or connect into the ecu to provide a feedback loop and carry out some auto adjusting of the fuelling

29th August 2008, 12:58

I haven't written a website yet, that's to come! I don't like the idea of just 'shifting tin' so I like to make sure the ECU is actually good for your situation. Doesn't matter how long away your purchase may/may not be, it's still good to have a poke-and-prod see what's around, and with you just being in So'ton it's dead easy!

To answer one of your questions, I could map a Predator to start your car initially no problem at all, the ECU can read and interpret the signals from a wideband controller directly, it's just another gauge on the laptop screen! The ECU will use that data to home-in on the correct fuel ratio's, or you can change the fuelling by hand and watch how the gauge changes - it's much easier to pop over and let me show you, my Saxo has a Predator, and an Innovate LC-1 wideband controller and the LC-1 is wired into the Predator.

It's all plug-n-play so you don't have to cut any wires or add/change any sensors, it's all just plug-in. It even bolts directly in the place of the original ECU using existing bolt-holes.

Pm me, maybe pop over one night next week or something?
Andy

29th August 2008, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

I haven't written a website yet, that's to come! I don't like the idea of just 'shifting tin' so I like to make sure the ECU is actually good for your situation. Doesn't matter how long away your purchase may/may not be, it's still good to have a poke-and-prod see what's around, and with you just being in So'ton it's dead easy!

To answer one of your questions, I could map a Predator to start your car initially no problem at all, the ECU can read and interpret the signals from a wideband controller directly, it's just another gauge on the laptop screen! The ECU will use that data to home-in on the correct fuel ratio's, or you can change the fuelling by hand and watch how the gauge changes - it's much easier to pop over and let me show you, my Saxo has a Predator, and an Innovate LC-1 wideband controller and the LC-1 is wired into the Predator.

It's all plug-n-play so you don't have to cut any wires or add/change any sensors, it's all just plug-in. It even bolts directly in the place of the original ECU using existing bolt-holes.

Pm me, maybe pop over one night next week or something?
Andy

Cheers Andy, will PM you now...

29th August 2008, 17:50

if it was me i would leave a boost pipe off, so that any boost the turbo creates doesnt go into the engine, just let it blow into the engine bay. leave standard ecu on, get the car to rolling road then fit boost pipes and piggy back ecu of whatever you have, then get it mapped. simple.

29th August 2008, 17:55

tbh i would go for a standalone ecu, and not a piggy back dastek or anything like that. get a proper ecu.

also i dnt like the idea of 'base' maps tbh. there can be so much variation that imo its not really worth messing with unless you are 100% sure of what you are doing. with a base map from someone else you will have to set up the tps, and think about what injector and fuel pressure you have. it could be miles out.

29th August 2008, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by reg_the_geza

if it was me i would leave a boost pipe off, so that any boost the turbo creates doesnt go into the engine, just let it blow into the engine bay. leave standard ecu on, get the car to rolling road then fit boost pipes and piggy back ecu of whatever you have, then get it mapped. simple.

Thats a good idea.

29th August 2008, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by reg_the_geza

tbh i would go for a standalone ecu, and not a piggy back dastek or anything like that. get a proper ecu.

also i dnt like the idea of 'base' maps tbh. there can be so much variation that imo its not really worth messing with unless you are 100% sure of what you are doing. with a base map from someone else you will have to set up the tps, and think about what injector and fuel pressure you have. it could be miles out.

Well, i wont be getting a piggy back or anything, it will be a proper standalone ECU (i.e this predator ECU luthur has mentioned).

I can hear where you are coming from about this base map thing. This is why i have started this thread because i couldnt see an easy way round it. The only way i can see round it is to put a base map on and have the 'mapper' linked in with his laptop watching and adjusting settings during the first 5 mins or so of the car being started. I dont know, i am no expert but i am meeting up with Luthur on Sunday to chat to him about so hopefully all these ambiguities can be put to bed. I will let you know.

29th August 2008, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjm300

you would be able to start it first time in your garage, if a base map is loaded, then you'd just chuck a load more fuel in across the map to be on the safe side, and then you could run it to make sure there are no leaks. at idle conditions there shouldnt be much boost, so by chucking more fuel in you shouldnt see any leaning out.
if you have a a/f ratio display, which you should have anyway to be safe, then you can monitor that to make sure everythings running ok.

Bore wash is worse than running lean at idle/no load. Especially on a new built engine which it probably will be.

19th March 2020, 00:28

Luthor please give me a message on 07495895464 if you ever get this message lol

19th March 2020, 18:41

Lol, he'll be long gone. Mega thread revival!
What do you need him for? something to do with the predator?

19th March 2020, 20:59

wow yes this is a bigger revival than Goodwood.

For the record, there's NO need for an aftermarket ECU to run a turbo setup. the OEM ecu is more than up to the job with a simple map sensor change for a sensor which accepts positive pressure readings.