Wheel spacer fitment issue

19th March 2009, 13:48

Chaps...

I've got a set of Team Dynamics which are Ford fitment in 108 PCD. I have a set of spacers for them too. See pic:

These spacers use spigots so they fit over my hubs nice and snug...

Now the issue! I've just picked up a set of Superleggera's which are also Ford fitment, but the spacers I'm using for the Team Dynamics have too big of a centre bore, so I cannot fit the spacer into the Superleggera's!

I've also noticed that the centre bore area of the Superleggera's looks to have odd markings, like whatever spacer or hub was used previously, had like a wire or something? See pic:

I would guess that my spacer is roughly 2 or 3mm too big in diameter for the Superleggera's. So what's going on???

19th March 2009, 14:09

Please dont use those spacers!

they're dangerous!

you need solid ones. preferably ones that bolt to the hub first then the wheel bolts to the spacer.

19th March 2009, 17:21

Why are they dangerous? I went round Brands Hatch yesterday - No issues...

Any idea about the fitments?

19th March 2009, 17:28

its quite simple.

the centre bore of the spacer is bigger than the centre bore of the wheel. only option is to get the spacer machined or just buy some spacers with the correct centre bore.

those spacers are crap i would never use them.

i have seen pictures of a few different cars where the spacers has buckled/broken along with the longer bolts and the wheel has come off at speed. not good.

is the centre bore of the superleggera's stamped on the back of the wheel? is it 63.4?

19th March 2009, 17:31

Sounds nasty...

Not sure, I'll take a look. What puzzled me is that I thought both wheels were Ford fitment, hence, they should both have the same centre bore.

19th March 2009, 17:33

from my own experience, team dynamics always use odd sizes. for some reason they dont use the same as everyone else.

19th March 2009, 17:35

Bugger!

19th March 2009, 17:45

these are what you need:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hubcentric-Whe...742.m153.l1262

19th March 2009, 17:48

No measurements on there. Got a tape measure out, and it was roughly 68mm.

19th March 2009, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curran

these are what you need:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hubcentric-Whe...742.m153.l1262

£52.50 for just 2 spacers!

19th March 2009, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

No measurements on there. Got a tape measure out, and it was roughly 68mm.

hmm. well citroen centre bore is 65.1 so you should be able to use normal citroen spacers.

you need to find out exactly what the centre bore of the wheels is.

then you will need spigot rings to adjust the centre bore from 65.1 to whatever the wheel centre bore is.

19th March 2009, 17:59

I've got them spacers on mine and no issues.

The hub on the spacer wouldnt fit inside my alloy so i just sanded it down abit, wd40 + big hammer = win.

19th March 2009, 18:01

The ones I'm using at the moment have spigot rings, they go around MY hubs, then the spacer slides on nicely. Gutted, was so hoping these spacers would fit. I'll contact Mr Rush to find the right ones for the Leggera's.

Thanks for the help Curran!

19th March 2009, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

I've got them spacers on mine and no issues.

The hub on the spacer wouldnt fit inside my alloy so i just sanded it down abit, wd40 + big hammer = win.

I would do that too, but they currently fit another set of rims just fine! Shitter ain't it!?

19th March 2009, 18:04

no problem

19th March 2009, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curran

Please dont use those spacers!

they're dangerous!

you need solid ones. preferably ones that bolt to the hub first then the wheel bolts to the spacer.

id like to know why you think these are dangerous??

ive used these EXACT spacers on my car for around a year and 4 trackdays!!!!! but obviously you know best.

id also like to add, these are the exact spacers team dynamics supplied. but they dont know a thing.

19th March 2009, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

I would do that too, but they currently fit another set of rims just fine! Shitter ain't it!?

Aye i know what you mean.

If you do end up doing it put a cloth and dumbell over the top of the spacer when you hammer it in then it goes in nice and even, plus no damage to the spacer.

19th March 2009, 18:17

danny - read what i posted again.

i've clearly written why they are dangerous.

who cares if team dynamics have supplied them. he's trying to fit SUPERLEGGERA's (who are made by OZ if you didnt know)

personally i would never use them even on the road.

if you saw the pictures, you would think twice about using them. i just wish i could find them to post up here.

19th March 2009, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curran

danny - read what i posted again.

i've clearly written why they are dangerous.

who cares if team dynamics have supplied them. he's trying to fit SUPERLEGGERA's (who are made by OZ if you didnt know)

personally i would never use them even on the road.

if you saw the pictures, you would think twice about using them. i just wish i could find them to post up here.

yes, but you how do you know the spacers that failed were these type.? there isnt one grade of alluminium!
i am aware that superleggras are made by o.z. thanks.

the spacers when used on td's wheels are safe. ive used them in the hardest envoiroment on several occasions and still use them on my car today on the road. i very much doubt td would want to be liable for accidents caused by spacers that they make and supply. afterall spacers arent exactly hard to make its not like they cant be arsed to make "proper" items.

i agree, the quality isnt as good as the likes of h&r etc but they still do the job for their application.
its up to toad wether he wants to use them for his o.z.? wheels or if he wants to sped £100+ for some more.

19th March 2009, 18:39

the point of this thread is the spacers wont fit his OZ wheels not whether he wants to use them or not.

lets just say they arent as good as solid spacers.

i have seen that design of spacers fail. i have not seen any issues from solid spacers.

19th March 2009, 18:46

ok.

toad to fit these to the o.z. you need to get the bore machined down. any machine shop could do this. easy job.

i agree that solid spacers would be stronger. but ive never heard of these fail and thats why i use them. unless you can back up the "claim" of you seeing that design spacer fail then ill carry on using mine and reccomending them.

19th March 2009, 18:48

ok, i'm going to try and find the pictures now.

it was a long time ago though and i dont know what forum it was on.

i'll try though.

i'm sure someone else on this forum must have seen them?

19th March 2009, 19:03

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...=broken+spacer

see post 17

its not what i'm looking for but he had problems with them.

i will continue to look for the photos

19th March 2009, 19:09

the big problem here is going to be... is it spacers failing OR is it mongs who fit the spacers and dont make them seat correctly.

if i have done 3 trackdays with 205 wide r888 im pretty confident they are strong

19th March 2009, 19:49

iirc someone posted photo's where the spacer had actually snapped. i'm having a hard time finding the photo's though.

they are obviously fairly strong but having seen what could happen, i dont have any faith in them.

19th March 2009, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

Aye i know what you mean.

If you do end up doing it put a cloth and dumbell over the top of the spacer when you hammer it in then it goes in nice and even, plus no damage to the spacer.

Cheers mate.

19th March 2009, 20:13

sorry for cluttering your tread toadus.

19th March 2009, 20:13

Danny, I could get the wheels machined, but it would probably cost a similar amount for a set of spacers that fit? What you reckon? As it stands, I don't actually know what spacers will fit these Leggera's.

19th March 2009, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

sorry for cluttering your tread toadus.

No probs mate. it's good to discuss things like what you and Curran are...

19th March 2009, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Danny, I could get the wheels machined, but it would probably cost a similar amount for a set of spacers that fit? What you reckon? As it stands, I don't actually know what spacers will fit these Leggera's.

you wouldnt want to machine the wheels. just the spacers.

so you are saying the bore of the spacer is too big to fit the wheel?

19th March 2009, 20:20

I work at Rtec and have only ever seen 1 of these type of 'hollow' spacers fail.
It had a bit old crack through and a chip around the edge.
Never had any issues from solid spacers.

19th March 2009, 20:22

machining the centre bore of the wheel is a fair job, as sometimes stud/bolt holes are sometimes too close. so it can be costly to get them re-pitched too.
Definitely in my mind worth getting the correct spacers for them.

19th March 2009, 20:24

Howdy doody!

Right Mr Toad remember when I mentioned that Shantel's Superlegs were supposed to be my spare track rims..

Well reason I never kept them for mine and put them on hers were cause of a very similar issue.

My Superlegs fit over my H&R spacers perfectly, but Shantel's Superlegs had a little lip on the bore. Looking at your pic of yours Toad I cant see the extra lip that Shantel had but you mentioned that theres marks on the bore? Thats a bit interesting. Shantel's set came from a Ford owner, did yours come from a Ford Toad?

With regards to the spacers, I also dont rate "basic" ones but tbh Ive never heard of anything bad happen to them..

Me personally I opted for the ones Curran recommends, way I look at it you cant put a price on peace of mind/safety. Again not knocking "basic" ones but Id rather not take the risk. Mine are the H&R ones:

A hell of a lot more expensive than the Ebay ones! They are a bladdy bargain.

19th March 2009, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxoAL

machining the centre bore of the wheel is a fair job, as sometimes stud/bolt holes are sometimes too close. so it can be costly to get them re-pitched too.
Definitely in my mind worth getting the correct spacers for them.

whats so hard about putting the spacer in the lathe and turning down the centre bore?

19th March 2009, 20:26

better safe than sorry when it comes to the main things that holds the car to the road IMO

19th March 2009, 20:27

The wheel you mean Danny?
The spacer to wheel size is wrong I think I'm right in saying?
you cant take any meat off the spacer to wheel size as it would then have no seating surely?

19th March 2009, 20:29

Id get them machined dude. Sounds like the best option, just make sure measurements are exact!!

19th March 2009, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxoAL

better safe than sorry when it comes to the main things that holds the car to the road IMO

i agree

if theres substancial amout of meat on the centre bore and it only needs a few thou taking off then it would be fine.. obviously taking 5mm off it wouldnt be recommended.

toad, anothrt option for you is get in touch with your local engineering/machining company and give them allthe measurements and they could make you some pimp ones for less than the H&R's. ive got a local place to me that does all stiff like this and they do a top job.

19th March 2009, 20:32

mate, as said in another thread, call me at work 01727 790 100, give me exact centre bore sizes and I'll see what I can get spacer wise for you.

19th March 2009, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxoAL

The wheel you mean Danny?
The spacer to wheel size is wrong I think I'm right in saying?
you cant take any meat off the spacer to wheel size as it would then have no seating surely?

the spacer buddy.
yep your correct its not t he correct spacer for wheel.

look at my last post for the answer to that.

it obviously a weird fitment by team dynamics. they have a habbit of making odd size stuff. but its a clever strategy as then you have to buy stuff off them.

19th March 2009, 20:37

pm williams.

he offered to machine a full set for me for £50 but he did ask for the CAD drawings.

personally i think for the sake of £50 the best bet would be to get solid ones made by williams, if he cant do it then i'd go for the ones on ebay.

but you could just get the ones you have machined to the correct centre bore. just make sure there is enough material to do so.

19th March 2009, 20:39

they made 3 or 4 different centre bore sizes. We constantly get people coming in with wheels that were purchased from ebay etc and they need spacers/centre rings etc to suit their cars lol

19th March 2009, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curran

pm williams.

he offered to machine a full set for me for £50 but he did ask for the CAD drawings.

personally i think for the sake of £50 the best bet would be to get solid ones made by williams, if he cant do it then i'd go for the ones on ebay.

but you could just get the ones you have machined to the correct centre bore. just make sure there is enough material to do so.

good idea, ive seen some of his work and its pretty good. and at that price its a bargain.

19th March 2009, 20:40

Thanks for all the comments!

Danny, yes mate, the spacers I've got are too big for the Leggera's.

Rush, thanks for the big post.

With regard to the centre bore of the Leggera's, it appears that whatever sat in there previously, had like a wire around it, as there is funny groove inside the bore area. The guy I bought them off said he had them on a 106, so he must have been using spacers. What's this lip on Shantel's mate? but if mine haven' got it, then I won't stress. Can I assume the centre bore of my set are the same as any other Leggera?

19th March 2009, 20:44

i wouldnt toadus.

id get a vernier caliper on it and find out exact measurements.

19th March 2009, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxoAL

mate, as said in another thread, call me at work 01727 790 100, give me exact centre bore sizes and I'll see what I can get spacer wise for you.

Thanks!

Using a tape measure, I got around 68mm earlier on. Strange, as that's really big!

19th March 2009, 20:47

your leggera's will be a standard size. you just need to find out what that size is.

measure it as accurately as you can then check that against the standard sizes.

19th March 2009, 20:49

I didnt read it all, but what offset are your wheels 37 or 42.

If they are 37, I have a set of 21mm spacers which fit for £50.

19th March 2009, 21:02

Jorge, didn't you post about these spacers already? you said they were specifically for OZ Leggera's but they didn't fit right? Or something along those lines? What's the story, as obviously I'm interested.

19th March 2009, 21:04

i've never seen 21mm spacers before

19th March 2009, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curran

i've never seen 21mm spacers before

Me neither.

The offset is 37 by the way. Ideally, I'd want 25mm spacers, but 20mm would suffice.

19th March 2009, 21:10

Oz are another one for making a few different size centre bores.
To my knowledge newer SuperLeg's are a different CB size to older ones. Definitely worth getting hold of a Vernier Caliper and measuring them accurately as opposed to with a tape measure, as even 1mm incorrect size will cause vibrations when wheels are fitted (as if the wheels aren't balanced properly)

19th March 2009, 21:17

Sorry i couldn't be arsed to read more than a few posts.

There are several different ford centre bores. Use a vernier and then measure the inside bore of the wheels you want to use, look up what ford they correspond to, and get a spacer to use to fit wheels from this ford to a 15/18mm offset PSA car.

The spacers that don't bolt to the hub aren't great, i've read about quite a few failing and i can see why. The wheel bolts bear all of the rotational force, and because they are extended there is a 26mm gap where the thread isn't being held by anything. Think of it like a long piece of metal, 30cm long. If you hold it at both ends and try to bend it, it will require a certain amount of force, if you hold it halfway down with one hand then one end with the other it will require a lot more force to bend it. The same applys for a threaded bolt, it's the same theory.

19th March 2009, 21:17

I've got an ancient pair of compasses I could use. Same principle I guess... Will have a crack tomoz.

19th March 2009, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

Sorry i couldn't be arsed to read more than a few posts.

There are several different ford centre bores. Use a vernier and then measure the inside bore of the wheels you want to use, look up what ford they correspond to, and get a spacer to use to fit wheels from this ford to a 15/18mm offset PSA car.

The spacers that don't bolt to the hub aren't great, i've read about quite a few failing and i can see why. The wheel bolts bear all of the rotational force, and because they are extended there is a 26mm gap where the thread isn't being held by anything. Think of it like a long piece of metal, 30cm long. If you hold it at both ends and try to bend it, it will require a certain amount of force, if you hold it halfway down with one hand then one end with the other it will require a lot more force to bend it. The same applys for a threaded bolt, it's the same theory.

Excellent, thanks for the info.

19th March 2009, 21:22

good point alex, obvioulsy its not ideal but it may not effect things as much as you think.
who determines how much thread loss will start effecting stuctural strength? even with 20mm of thread "free floating" it may still be well within tolerances...not ideal again i know. but ive not had issues as of yet and i dont exactly give the car an easy life.

19th March 2009, 21:28

You need to also remember that as well as the strength of the bolts, there's also frictional strength from the surface of the wheel and the hub. Yes, this friction is created by the bolts, but it's not just the strength of the bolts which are taking all the pressure. However, if the wheel and hub were not in contact, the length of the bolts would play a much greater role, as it would be purely the bolts which were holding everything together.

19th March 2009, 21:30

^^^hence why hubcentric are very important.

19th March 2009, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

^^^hence why hubcentric are very important.

VERY IMPORTANT.

We see some shocking stuff come into our workshop.
Halfrauds supplied non hubcentric 10mm spacers, even some spacers that were hubcentric that have had the lip ground off due to being incorrect size.

Had a 206 in the other day with wide arch body kit. had three 20mm spaces on each corner. one bolted to the other, then to the other then to the hub!!! VERY VERY SILLY

19th March 2009, 21:36

Indeed. Some people get away with non-hubcentric spacers up to 25mm+ but you'd not catch me near them lol

Thousands of people get away with using the spacers you are using, but i do remember a few 106 and saxo guys using the same design of spacer with their superLs, the standard OZ fitting kit, and them having bolts snap and a wheel fall off! Back when SSC and PGAC were the clubs to be in, now it's SaxP and 106owners lol

19th March 2009, 21:40

that was some years ago eh Alex!

19th March 2009, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Thanks for all the comments!

Danny, yes mate, the spacers I've got are too big for the Leggera's.

Rush, thanks for the big post.

With regard to the centre bore of the Leggera's, it appears that whatever sat in there previously, had like a wire around it, as there is funny groove inside the bore area. The guy I bought them off said he had them on a 106, so he must have been using spacers. What's this lip on Shantel's mate? but if mine haven' got it, then I won't stress. Can I assume the centre bore of my set are the same as any other Leggera?

No problem mate, from what I remember they bores were exactly the same on both sets of rims. But Shan's had a lip on the inside of the bore, like a 1mm ring inside if that makes sense.

It was right on the end so when I tried to sit it on the spacer it would not have it, even then I banged the wheel a bit no go. Would of ended up damaging the spacer.

Shame I didnt get pics, if its good weather on saturday I will take one of Shans rims off now and show you what I mean.

19th March 2009, 21:54

Oh right... So that ring is still on there? Mine look like there was a metal ring inside, but it's now gone. Really odd eh?