Brake Setup? What's recommended?

25th June 2009, 20:50

I have just purchased a VTS engine, well the whole conversion and hope to be receiving next week

I'm not going to be one of those people to run 16v power on standard Furio front brakes and drums! However, I am not looking into changing the rear drums so I need some really good brakes up front! (Have heard that changing the drums to discs doesn't do an awful lot more anyway..

Basically, I need some recommendations and need to know every part that is required such as discs, pads, hoses etc etc..

I've seen some Brembo's and Wilwoods on here etc, but was wondering, are they really worth that much £ and would I notice a big difference?

What are other alternatives such as 206 gti or 306 gti ones?? Do these need to be modified to fit?

Any help/advice will be appreciated as always

James.

25th June 2009, 21:07

I'd either get Brembo's or Wilwood's tbh, i bought Wilwood's comes with the full fitting kit to fit them to, 285mm discs, just got to buy the pads mintex pads and they make the braided lines. Trust me they will be worth the money tbh.

25th June 2009, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne

I'd either get Brembo's or Wilwood's tbh, i bought Wilwood's comes with the full fitting kit to fit them to, 285mm discs, just got to buy the pads mintex pads and they make the braided lines. Trust me they will be worth the money tbh.

Who makes the braided lines mate?

How much did you pay if you don't mind me asking and where did you get them from?

Thanks

25th June 2009, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRC1

I have just purchased a VTS engine, well the whole conversion and hope to be receiving next week

I'm not going to be one of those people to run 16v power on standard Furio front brakes and drums! However, I am not looking into changing the rear drums so I need some really good brakes up front! (Have heard that changing the drums to discs doesn't do an awful lot more anyway..

Basically, I need some recommendations and need to know every part that is required such as discs, pads, hoses etc etc..

I've seen some Brembo's and Wilwoods on here etc, but was wondering, are they really worth that much £ and would I notice a big difference?

What are other alternatives such as 206 gti or 306 gti ones?? Do these need to be modified to fit?

Any help/advice will be appreciated as always

James.

Furio and VTS brakes are the same..

Id get either willwoods or gti180 brake set up, been most impressed with them setups. And dont cost the earth.

Personally id just get a decent 266 setup. But im a cheap skate.

25th June 2009, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by db_sax

Furio and VTS brakes are the same..

Id get either willwoods or gti180 brake set up, been most impressed with them setups. And dont cost the earth.

Personally id just get a decent 266 setup. But im a cheap skate.

Wilwoods don't cost the earth?! - http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...hlight=wilwood

What sort of price would I be looking at for a decent 266 setup and would they be alot better than what I have now?

Thanks

25th June 2009, 22:05

266mm setup will be around £200, thats with new discs & pads...

120bhp & drum brakes is not a good thing... VTS rear beam & discs and adjust the brake bias valve accordingly..

25th June 2009, 22:16

266mm setup was one of the best things i ever did. Get yourself some mintex discs ands pads with some goodridge braided hoses and you will be away.

And a vtr/s rear beam for the discs it will be worth it.

25th June 2009, 22:40

Yeah but a new rear beam will mean torsion again wont it? iirc Raunchz is running a tb'd 16v westcoast on drums but just has a quality set up up front..

So, to clarify, what types of 266 setups are there? Can they be bought new or do they have to come from another car like a 206 etc?

Thanks.

25th June 2009, 22:45

You dont have to do a disc rear beam mate they only do about 24% of braking or whatever. As long as you have a good front setup. If you ride a bike and use the rear brake without it locking up it does fuck all at speed, use the front one and it does a whole load more.

Get something like belingo/306xsi 266 calipers, goodrich hoses, mintex m1144 pads, maxtorq grp N discs, and a good 5.1 brake fluid and youll have a good setup

25th June 2009, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by db_sax

You dont have to do a disc rear beam mate they only do about 24% of braking or whatever. As long as you have a good front setup. If you ride a bike and use the rear brake without it locking up it does fuck all at speed, use the front one and it does a whole load more.

Get something like belingo/306xsi 266 calipers, goodrich hoses, mintex m1144 pads, maxtorq grp N discs, and a good 5.1 brake fluid and youll have a good setup

how much would this cost?

want to upgrade my brakes!

25th June 2009, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by db_sax

You dont have to do a disc rear beam mate they only do about 24% of braking or whatever. As long as you have a good front setup. If you ride a bike and use the rear brake without it locking up it does fuck all at speed, use the front one and it does a whole load more.

Get something like belingo/306xsi 266 calipers, goodrich hoses, mintex m1144 pads, maxtorq grp N discs, and a good 5.1 brake fluid and youll have a good setup

Cheers mate, great info

Where can a setup like this be bought from? Does everything have to be purchased separately?

Thanks

25th June 2009, 22:59

Well the calipers, are any sort of price, probs around £80ish? i havnt really looked into it properly. Check ebay on here or breakers yards for the calipers.

Maztorq Grp N discs

Mintex M1144's all 4, but maybe get just front 2 off ebay

Braided hoses

5.1 brake fluid

25th June 2009, 23:06

dont worry about the rear, its actually about 10% of the braking. Iv had a disc conversion but i cant tell the difference except it looks better

If your on budget Id recommend 266mm cals/discs and a bigger mc. You can get xsara vtr coupe front calipers for around £40 for a decent set and Thecherry0121 sells 23mm mcs for £30 deliveried I bought one off him got it today!
And swampy can make you an exact brakeline set up for around £45. Then discs and pads are around £50+ for mintex or other half decent makes. total around £160 mark.

If you got the cash get the 283mm cal set ups. iv seen 2 full set ups (brake lines,dsics,pads,cals ect..) in the for sale section for around £500

25th June 2009, 23:23

Thanks to both of you, much appreciated

25th June 2009, 23:29

you dont need brakes mate, forget them down gear ftw

25th June 2009, 23:45

i would check to see how much calipers and carriers from say a berlingo or 206 gti (140) cost from pug/citroen brand new. i remember reading a progress thread (possibly on rr) and am pritty sure the calipers and carriers both sides came to around £100 brand new from the parts desk.

il go hunt for the thread as am not 100% on the figures

25th June 2009, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxy89

you dont need brakes mate, forget them down gear ftw

Lol, don't be silly

Quote:

Originally Posted by DA13

i would check to see how much calipers and carriers from say a berlingo or 206 gti (140) cost from pug/citroen brand new. i remember reading a progress thread (possibly on rr) and am pritty sure the calipers and carriers both sides came to around £100 brand new from the parts desk.

il go hunt for the thread as am not 100% on the figures

That would be great mate

25th June 2009, 23:53

Quote:

I went for Nitrac 8 groove discs from MSW (34mm offset), and Ferodo DS2500 pads. The calipers and carriers were new from Peugeot,

Carrier - 44 0496 / 44 0496 - £36.77 each
Caliper - 44 1067 / 44 1068 - £28.98 each

theres the link to the page - http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2...ad.php?t=51253

those prices were early 2008 (wouldnt think there would be a huge difference) from the pug parts desk 5 mins from me in aberdeen.

25th June 2009, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DA13

theres the link to the page - http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2...ad.php?t=51253

those prices were early 2008 (wouldnt think there would be a huge difference) from the pug parts desk 5 mins from me in aberdeen.

That's really good info there mate. Cheers for that!

All the responses have been great! Spoilt for choice now really! Will have to have a think and weigh all the options up!

Thanks

26th June 2009, 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DA13

theres the link to the page - http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2...ad.php?t=51253

those prices were early 2008 (wouldnt think there would be a huge difference) from the pug parts desk 5 mins from me in aberdeen.

Niceone for that mate!

26th June 2009, 00:12

no probs folks

i was suprised at how cheap the caliper and carrier were brand new from citroen, especially compared to some prices for 266 calipers and carriers second hand.

i rekon il be investing in some of these once my new discs and pads are done on my normal vtr setup (am trying my best to do that as quick as possible lol)

26th June 2009, 14:53

Just came across these on eBay - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=140329213122

Are they any good and would they fit fine under VTS alloys? The only thing that's needed are some discs..

Also found some Brembo calipers from a 406.. Do these fit under VTS alloys (even if 25mm spacers are used) and also where could I purchase the discs/pads for Brembo calipers from?

Thanks.

26th June 2009, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRC1

Also found some Brembo calipers from a 406.. Do these fit under VTS alloys (even if 25mm spacers are used) and also where could I purchase the discs/pads for Brembo calipers from?

Thanks.

I was going to recommend these. Peugeot dealership?

26th June 2009, 15:10

What are you looking for in a brake system?
Are you trying to change the brake feel, effort required to brake at maximum potential, heat issues, or looks?...

Kev

27th June 2009, 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

What are you looking for in a brake system?
Are you trying to change the brake feel, effort required to brake at maximum potential, heat issues, or looks?...

Kev

Not too bothered about looks tbh but it would be a bonus..

Just looking for improved all round braking, and due to having drums on the back require some serious stopping power up front..

27th June 2009, 09:03

I got a set of clipers off a xarsa hdi (266) from my local scrapyard for £30..

27th June 2009, 09:48

My set up, which i was hugely impressed with at FCS (2 runs straight after each other with no fade at all).

Peugeot 306 GTI6 Calipers & brackets - £80 off eBay
Mintex 1144 Pads - £50 from a local motor factors
Mintex Discs - £20 new off eBay
Goodridge braided brake lines - £25 new off eBay

Total of £175.

I have recantly put a longer MC on, cost me £10 from Mark51 on here, which he bought from a local scrap yard (no doubt he made some money out of me lol

)
You will need to grind down the caliper brackets slightly to fit them on (only slightly) the rest is easy.

27th June 2009, 12:17

Some great advice there guy's.. Cheers..

What's everyones opinion on these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=140329213122

27th June 2009, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRC1

Some great advice there guy's.. Cheers..

What's everyones opinion on these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=140329213122

if you have the cash right now - BUY BUY BUY, but I can see the price rocketing TBH.

27th June 2009, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nij

if you have the cash right now - BUY BUY BUY, but I can see the price rocketing TBH.

Yeah, i've got the cash but no point making him an offer as I might be able to get them for a steal! What are they worth roughly? I don't want to pay over the odds..

Plus there aren't any discs included.. Would these be much to buy?

The guy states that they will fit under 15's so i'm guessing S wheels will be fine?!

Cheers

27th June 2009, 19:31

I love my hi spec 4 pots on the front! Im running drums on the rear with the 4 pots upfront and the braking is immense!!! IMO I don't feel a rear disc conversion is a must.

27th June 2009, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

I love my hi spec 4 pots on the front! Im running drums on the rear with the 4 pots upfront and the braking is immense!!! IMO I don't feel a rear disc conversion is a must.

Yeah, thought you had drums on the rear still! How much would you say the ones in the link are worth?

27th June 2009, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRC1

Yeah, thought you had drums on the rear still! How much would you say the ones in the link are worth?

Its hard to say, as would need £40 spent on a new mount, and new discs and pads (as the green stuff are pap).

IMO I'd look to pay around £200-250 for them. I wouldn't worry about discs on the rear as a n immediate mod,

27th June 2009, 20:27

ross is car has better breaking than mine mate. stops as soon as the pedal is down awesome stopping power i will be looking for some hi spec this week

27th June 2009, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Its hard to say, as would need £40 spent on a new mount, and new discs and pads (as the green stuff are pap).

IMO I'd look to pay around £200-250 for them. I wouldn't worry about discs on the rear as a n immediate mod,

What's a new mount mate?!

What discs and pads would you recommend?

Nah, will leave drums on the back..

Cheers

27th June 2009, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxy89

ross is car has better breaking than mine mate. stops as soon as the pedal is down awesome stopping power i will be looking for some hi spec this week

Lol.. Yeah i've gotta get some ready for when the S engine is in

27th June 2009, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRC1

Yeah, i've got the cash but no point making him an offer as I might be able to get them for a steal! What are they worth roughly? I don't want to pay over the odds..

Plus there aren't any discs included.. Would these be much to buy?

The guy states that they will fit under 15's so i'm guessing S wheels will be fine?!

Cheers

I would say £200 to £225 poss £230 at a push.
You would need to make the brackets to put the calipers onto the mountings for them and dics's. TBH I am not too sure how much or where to source discs, but cant see them beeing too much (poss £100), and I would look at different pads.
BUT I have never used them, but have seen good reviews on them.
And yeah, 'S' wheels will fit if the calipers have room for 15"'s

27th June 2009, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nij

I would say £200 to £225 poss £230 at a push.
You would need to make the brackets to put the calipers onto the mountings for them and dics's. TBH I am not too sure how much or where to source discs, but cant see them beeing too much (poss £100), and I would look at different pads.
BUT I have never used them, but have seen good reviews on them.

What do you mean (the bit i've put in bold).. The brackets provided were fitted to a Saxo I think so won't it be a straight fit?

Yeah, have heard mintex pads are good? I'll have to have a look around for discs.. guessing they will have to be a certain size..

Thanks

27th June 2009, 20:52

Ive got a 266mm setup with OMP fast road disks and pads, and a 23.8mm MC. Does the job very well. Got all of it bar the MC for £110. MC was £20 I think, sourced it myself at a scrappy.

Also done the rear disk conversion, I did notice a diff tbh. Not a massive one but braking is improved. Back locks up though under heavy braking, so Im running a single rear line and a bias valve too. Its all very cheap and worthwhile if you do it yourself.

27th June 2009, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRC1

What's a new mount mate?!

What discs and pads would you recommend?

Nah, will leave drums on the back..

Cheers

well one of the mounts in the eBay link is cracked, be best to replace it.

I've got some standard volve pads and maxtorq group n discs and seems to stop very well - cost me around £80 with a new pad fitting kit from hi spec.

I've recently rebuilt my rear drum beam so keeping it for a while, might change to discs on the rear in the future if a pair of trailing arms etc come along cheap, I'd use my main beam as the stub pins are mint.

27th June 2009, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

well one of the mounts in the eBay link is cracked, be best to replace it.

I've got some standard volve pads and maxtorq group n discs and seems to stop very well - cost me around £80 with a new pad fitting kit from hi spec.

I've recently rebuilt my rear drum beam so keeping it for a while, might change to discs on the rear in the future if a pair of trailing arms etc come along cheap, I'd use my main beam as the stub pins are mint.

Ok nice one mate, cheers for ya help

27th June 2009, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben_Saxo

Ive got a 266mm setup with OMP fast road disks and pads, and a 23.8mm MC. Does the job very well. Got all of it bar the MC for £110. MC was £20 I think, sourced it myself at a scrappy.

Also done the rear disk conversion, I did notice a diff tbh. Not a massive one but braking is improved. Back locks up though under heavy braking, so Im running a single rear line and a bias valve too. Its all very cheap and worthwhile if you do it yourself.

Sounds good..

I've heard that the front can lock up with hi - spec brakes and 4 pots etc.. does this happen often like?

27th June 2009, 21:33

If youve got decent rubber and know your shizz behind the wheel, no mate

27th June 2009, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRC1

Sounds good..

I've heard that the front can lock up with hi - spec brakes and 4 pots etc.. does this happen often like?

I've only locked mine up when a wheel hits a manhole cover and locks up.

The 4pots feel like they've got plenty of power to lock up, just don't wrench the brakes on I suppose!!

27th June 2009, 21:59

Thanks to both of ya

I'll update here on whether I win them off eBay or not lol

30th June 2009, 20:42

If I do go for these off eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=140329213122

Anyone point me in the right direction on what discs I would need to get? A link would be good so I could see how much they would add the total price up to..

Cheers.

30th June 2009, 20:47

I'm running standard 306 gti-6 discs

OR go to hispec direct for their discs - phone number is on their website.

30th June 2009, 21:08

Would this be a good shout for discs and pads then? And would they still fit as the calipers are said to be 285mm and these are 283mm?!

Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEUGEOT-306-GT...3A1%7C294%3A50

1st July 2009, 11:58

Just heard back from Hi-Spec.. They want £65 EACH for discs not including VAT and Delivery.. Are there any cheaper alternatives for discs for the above setup?

Cheers.

1st July 2009, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRC1

Just heard back from Hi-Spec.. They want £65 EACH for discs not including VAT and Delivery.. Are there any cheaper alternatives for discs for the above setup?

Cheers.

TBH i would try black diamond, ebc, tarrox and mintex if you have a model/serial number.

1st July 2009, 15:14

So will any 285mm discs be sufficient or not? I take it the makes you have provided are the best to go for though..

1st July 2009, 15:22

Youll need pads from hi spec or from a Volvo - see the brake pad guide on ssc for the models.

I'm running normal gti-6 discs, I had to shave under 1mm from the outer/inner pad (can't remember) pad as the disc is fractionally the wrong offset. I went for the maxtorq discs from kam.

Might need a brake pad fitting kit, around £8 from Hi spec.

1st July 2009, 15:24

U need a disc with the correct offset - not any 285mm disc will fit

1st July 2009, 15:25

So these would be ok? http://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufactu...-gti-1677.html

But I would have to shave a bit off the pads to fit? Sounds like a bit of hassle.. Aren't there pads I can buy off kam which would be a straight fit?

Cheers dude.

1st July 2009, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

U need a disc with the correct offset - not any 285mm disc will fit

Aha, I didn't realise that lol..

1st July 2009, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRC1

So these would be ok? http://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufactu...-gti-1677.html

But I would have to shave a bit off the pads to fit? Sounds like a bit of hassle.. Aren't there pads I can buy off kam which would be a straight fit?

Cheers dude.

They are the discs I'm running.

It took me around 20secs to just shave the pad a lillte, I'm talking under half a millimeter as they rub slightly due to the incorrect offset of the 306gti-6 discs.

Those discs are much cheaper than 1 hi spec disc!

1st July 2009, 15:45

the other thing to note is that hi specs are specialised brakes - only hi spec sell parts for them unless you look for alternatives to use. (pads from volvo are perfect, discs from 306gti-6 aren't perfect but fit)

1st July 2009, 15:55

Appreciate ya help mate.. May have to go for them. They are only at £170 at the moment! What do you reckon the max they are worth is really?? Those 306 discs sound good then.. He is supplying green stuff pads with them.. Surely they fit? If he is supplying them and he states that it all fits a Saxo/106..

Thanks again..

3rd July 2009, 11:42

Didn't win the Hi-Specs off eBay in the end.. They went for more that what I wanted to pay..

Hi-Specs, Wilwoods and Brembos don't seem to come up too often, and when they do they are pricey..

I have decided to look more into GTi 180 and/or 306 GTi -6 brakes.. Am I right in saying the GTi 180 ones are 266mm and the 306 GTi -6 ones are 283mm?

Basically, taking into account that I have a drum rear beam, which setup would be better and why? Would they both be a straight fit? Or would the 306 ones still need grinding even though i'll have 25mm spacers on the front??

How much should I be looking to pay for each? Would I need anything else other than pads, calipars and discs to fit a saxo? Heard that I may need a different master cyliner? Is this true?

If anyone could help me out with the above questions, it will be much appreciated

Thanks..

3rd July 2009, 13:35

anyone?

3rd July 2009, 13:39

GTI 180 and GTI6 are both 283mm mate, the only difference is the width of the disc, 180's being wider. Also the caliper. If you can find them get 180's tried them aswell and id honestly compare them to the 4pots when set up good.

You can pick up the 180's for around £200ish maybe a few £ more, but they are defintaly worth it, GTI6's around £130.

You dont HAVE to have the gti6 m/s though it will be alot better and an easy job to do and only cost around £20 probabaly less at a breakers yard.

3rd July 2009, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by db_sax

GTI 180 and GTI6 are both 283mm mate, the only difference is the width of the disc, 180's being wider. Also the caliper. If you can find them get 180's tried them aswell and id honestly compare them to the 4pots when set up good.

You can pick up the 180's for around £200ish maybe a few £ more, but they are defintaly worth it, GTI6's around £130.

You dont HAVE to have the gti6 m/s though it will be alot better and an easy job to do and only cost around £20 probabaly less at a breakers yard.

Cheers for that mate.. Some really useful information there.. Will the stopping power between them both be pretty similar then?

I always thought GTi 180's were 266mm but clearly not..

Which car are the 266mm ones off of that come up for sale regularly? And what is the stopping power like on these compared to the above two?

Cheers mate

3rd July 2009, 13:58

Well i would honestly compare the 180's to a lower end 4pot setup(the more common more affordable ones). So i would say theyre alot better than GTI6 setup.

266mm is pretty good and adequate for a moderate vts, which is what i want to go for.

can get them off:

Belingo Van
206 gti
306 xsi
cant think now of the other ones lol

Either get a decent 266mm setup with all hoses and fluid, or if you can afford or find the 180 set up then definatly get them.

13th August 2009, 13:16

Do you need to get the carriers if you go for 266's or will they fit on the standard VTS ones?

Im thinkin 266 discs, mintex m1144 pads and braided hoses.