3 Stud Big Brake Progress (First AX GT, then VTS, now 206 GTi)

  1. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #1
    I have some crazy ideas sometimes





    Discuss
  2. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #2
    Oh hai Mike.

    Are they the GT ones? but not painted blue?
  3. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504
    #3
    dont get it?
  4. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #4
    Jeez! Don't you guys recognise a VTS caliper?!?

    And yeah dan, this was this morning before they got tarted up, just had a trial fit
  5. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #5
    i thought about similar to this

    ax gt discs and a vtr/vts calpier
    i just went 4 stud instead though
  6. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2008 BEDFORD, GUILDFORD, WAYBRIDGE Posts: 4172 Punt -y0
    #6
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mikol View Post
    Jeez! Don't you guys recognise a VTS caliper?!?

    And yeah dan, this was this morning before they got tarted up, just had a trial fit
    I thought they were your AX GT ones lol.

    I don't really need to discuss.
  7. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #7
    Aha, I bought AX GT ones, but on the mk2's the bolt spacing is the same as GTi/VTS calipers so they bolt straight on with shorter bolts.

    It'll go on the car in standard form with the AX caliper to begin with, but not for long. Do i hear VENTS?!?

    Aha! 4 stud would be the EASY way out
  8. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #8
    **UPDATE**

    Got my hands on a set of redrilled 3 stud VTS discs, and trial fitted them. They came with spacers as the central hub is larger on 4 stud cars than 3.

    Vented 3 stud brakes? NO WAI!!

    Yes way



    The discs



    Wheel bolted on



    I hear Citroen ZX calipers can be used with the standard solid discs for improved braking aswell, just wiht spacers on the carrier so the disc still sits centrally within the caliper. When these discs eventually run out that could be an option with these VT* calipers.

    Yet to test them on the car, waiting on shorter VT caliper bolts to arrive.
  9. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #9
    As a final update - fitted y0!



    And working bloody nicely With basic Mintex pads these already have noticably more bite than my 1st AX upgrade and are in a different league completely to standard-fit brakes.

    Although i did bump someone whilst they were bedding in, but given 50/100 miles to wear in I am now very impressed

    Full list of parts used during conversion -

    AX 1.5D Front Strut Legs
    AX 1.5D Driveshafts
    AX 1.5D Hub Bearings (I shredded my old ones before I realised I needed AX shafts, oops!)
    106/Saxo Top mounts & Spring Pans
    VTS Calipers + New Pads
    Redrilled VTS Discs
    Custom Hub Bore Spacer
    Braided Brake Lines (Might as well while switching calipers)
    Many hours labour

    In conclusion - go 4 stud aha!
  10. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #10
    Heh, best resurrect this thread again since I have just made a purchase



    Can anyone guess what it is?

    Muahaha!
  11. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2008 Bedford & Manchester Posts: 17504
    #11
    bloody uni kids, spending their loans on car parts...
  12. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #12
    Hello

    Nice work doing something different - and trying to put a set together yourself !!! Hope they are a good improvement !
  13. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ashleyp View Post
    bloody uni kids, spending their loans on car parts...
    Overdraft is my friend

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by raunchz View Post
    Hello

    Nice work doing something different - and trying to put a set together yourself !!! Hope they are a good improvement !
    Haha cheers, need to sort out discs, pads and paint but should make for some very sexual brakes once done
  14. L-plater Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 96
    #14
    pretty good effort, i thought about doing similar with my 1.1 but after i weighed up all the work needed i might aswel have just gone 4stud conversion anyways, in the end i crashed it so ohwel lol
  15. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #15
    Project 3 stud 266mm has begun

    First update -







    Calipers in hand and in decent nick. All seals and screws in good nick (they should be - these are only 7 years old)

    Just need to sort discs & pads in the new year and these will be ready to fit.

    Other stuff is taking priority for the moment though, the pug is breaking faster than I can fix it tbh. Wishbones, rear brakes, driveshafts, tyres and exhaust all need attention before I have the cash to fit big stoppers.
  16. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jan 2007 Aylesbury, Bucks Posts: 12836 Yeaaahh Fiesta
    #16
    whats next gti-6 then 4pots?
  17. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Nuneaton Posts: 3554 EP3 Civic
    #17
    so why have you not done the sensible thing of buying vts struts?

    Also did you actualy get the discs balanced once redrilled?
  18. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #18
    Shits and giggles mostly.

    And no, these current ones were bought and fitted as they were, however the 266mm ones I'm looking to do 'properly' and so will look into rebalancing. Any ideas what sort of firms would take on the job?
  19. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Feb 2007 Nuneaton Posts: 3554 EP3 Civic
    #19
    most engineer comapnies. But for the price you may aswell do it correctly and use VT parts
  20. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aron View Post
    most engineer comapnies. But for the price you may aswell do it correctly and use VT parts
    To be honest, I've probably already spent 3 times as much as it would have cost using VT parts. That road's long been closed off.

    My 3 stud wheels come back from the sprayers at Christmas. They're staying. 3 stud is staying. Sleeper potential is staying.
  21. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #21
    Ehehehe



    Just a trial fit, hit some problems along the way with the custom parts, plus some major dumbfuckery from the engineering company, but it's looking more than promising wouldn't you agree?

    Re: balancing, I took the discs to a flywheel balancing company who ran them through their balancing software and concluded at the RPM these will be at they won't need rebalancing and that hes actually seen flywheels with worse balance than these! Bonus!
  22. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #22
    ooo like that
  23. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Aug 2008 daventry/coventry Posts: 2919 corsa yo
    #23
    my theory says they would be balanced as the whole are al equal space apart ect
    there just light weight with the extra holes
  24. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #24
    I'd say the biggest factor is that most of the actual weight of the disc is concentrated around the edge, on the friction plates. Comparatively very little is in the centre, so changes there won't have as large of an effect.

    Coupled with the fact that the outer edges have a much greater torque around the hub and changes to the central mounting face would indeed appear to make very little difference.

    The actual pattern is not balanced as it clearly isn't symmetrical about any axis.
  25. Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 adelaide Australia prev. maidenhead (England) Posts: 1866
    #25
    worried about the forces being put on the top new hole in that last picture, distance to the origional hole doesnt look that big.
  26. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #26
    It'll be fine.

    That's a 7mm cast disc. It won't be snapping anytime soon.

    In any case, the forces are shared equally between all 3 bolts, any weakness or additional stress in one of them would be accounted for by the others. For the disc to move at all, all 3 of them must fail.

    Additionally, when the wheel is bolted on and torqued onto the hub there is minimal chance of the disc slipping even minutely (talking 0.1mm here) due to the frictional sandwich between it, the hub and the wheel.

    Just as a side note, the caliper in the picture is on the piss because I only had one bolt through. I've since ground the carrier and got it all fitted nicely.
  27. Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 adelaide Australia prev. maidenhead (England) Posts: 1866
    #27
    well if your sure.
    will be fun next time you need discs then hey.
  28. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #28
    Not really. Buy discs, get them drilled for a few quid. Slap on.

    Done.
  29. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #29
    Heheheh, thought I'd give a minor update...



    And they definitely stop lol...
  30. Infrequent Poster Joined: Feb 2010 Rotherham Posts: 82
    #30
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brianS View Post
    worried about the forces being put on the top new hole in that last picture, distance to the origional hole doesnt look that big.
    The disc is held by the clamp load between the wheel and the hub, not located on the bolts.
  31. Infrequent Poster Joined: Feb 2010 Rotherham Posts: 82
    #31
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mikol View Post
    I'd say the biggest factor is that most of the actual weight of the disc is concentrated around the edge, on the friction plates. Comparatively very little is in the centre, so changes there won't have as large of an effect.

    Coupled with the fact that the outer edges have a much greater torque around the hub and changes to the central mounting face would indeed appear to make very little difference.

    The actual pattern is not balanced as it clearly isn't symmetrical about any axis.
    I normally balance my wavy discs within half a gram, but to be honest 10x that wouldn't be a problem.
  32. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #32
    Ahh good to know, like I say the flywheel company I took them to could find very little wrong with the balancing if used at wheel RPM

    Out of interest where do you drill when you balance? The man wanted to go into the friction plate but I wasn't keen on the sound of that....
  33. Established Member Joined: Jun 2007 Belfast Posts: 1001 red 1.0 wonder
    #33
    good work dude! love the 3 studness. now you can stop fast....get something to go faster!!
  34. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #34
    All in good time my friend...

    Bodywork and other stuff is taking priority before I head for the insurance-raping minefield that is MOAR POWAAA
  35. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #35
    you realise you can be the first for 3 stud brembos?
  36. Established Member Joined: Jun 2008 Somewhere between Bedford and Brixworth Posts: 2373 106 XS 16v Driveway Ornament
    #36
    Probably, but I'm done with the brakes for now, need to sink some money into other areas now the brakes and suspension are pretty much finished.

    Though it would make a nice project though if some money fell into my lap
  37. Infrequent Poster Joined: Feb 2010 Rotherham Posts: 82
    #37
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mikol View Post
    Ahh good to know, like I say the flywheel company I took them to could find very little wrong with the balancing if used at wheel RPM

    Out of interest where do you drill when you balance? The man wanted to go into the friction plate but I wasn't keen on the sound of that....
    I just skim a little on the outer scollop on my disc - I've deliberately left a little bit on that doesn't touch the pad.
  38. Established Member Joined: Jan 2010 Sunderland Posts: 1025 Mk7 Zetec S
    #38
    Followed the progress with this on 106 Owners. Impressed with your decision to stay 3 Stud. Keep up the good work