New Technical Area Launched

1. Simop Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Warrington Posts: 20561 Blue Saxo VTS Turbo/White Megane F1 R26

   #1 9th July 2009, 21:49

   All,
   
   As some of you will have read, a new articles section has been under construction by myself and the content contributor team for a number of months. This evening, the first technical reference material 'went live'.
   
   Special thanks to BobC for his efforts over the last couple of weeks!
   
   If anyone else is interested to join the content contributor team and help to author/publish information and articles, please register your interest within the group memberships tab, within your User CP.
   
   Premium Members >> Articles Section --> Technical Reference Area
   
   

   5 users thanked this post: user_7076, user_8040, Mark51p, J222JRA, Paulp
2. user_32481 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2009 Milk 'n' Beans (Milton Keynes, MK2) Posts: 3243 MK1 Trackin S engined R, 112.5 ATW, approx 135 ATF

   #2 9th July 2009, 21:58

   Looking good Simo
3. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

   #3 9th July 2009, 22:08

   Epic tbh, well done Simo and everyone who helped put it together!
4. chinkostu Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2008 The wrong carpark Posts: 5152 Xantia 1.9TD

   #4 10th July 2009, 00:51

   i aint getting pics mate?
5. Matto Infrequent Poster Joined: Nov 2007 Bolton Posts: 233 Mk2 Golf

   #5 10th July 2009, 01:18

   ^Youll probably find you cant actually see any of the guides either, as your not a premium member.
6. chinkostu Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2008 The wrong carpark Posts: 5152 Xantia 1.9TD

   #6 10th July 2009, 01:30

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Matto ^Youll probably find you cant actually see any of the guides either, as your not a premium member.

   ahh
   
   
7. Luke Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2005 Bradford Posts: 26687 '15 Focus ST-2

   #7 10th July 2009, 09:02

   Awesome information.
   
   I'm sure I'll use it
8. user_27433 Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 705 VTR

   #8 10th July 2009, 09:09

   sounds awsome bud nice one
9. ryanmt Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5

   #9 10th July 2009, 09:36

   Cant see the guides but i can see the intos
   
   

   Quote:

   The ECU controls the injectors separately by earthing them in the firing order 1-3-4-2 when the inlet valves are closed

   Wrong, theyre fired in pairs.
   
   Very funny lingo used too. "Twin static" insead of wasted spark and a few other bits.
10. Simop Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Warrington Posts: 20561 Blue Saxo VTS Turbo/White Megane F1 R26

    #10 10th July 2009, 11:45

    Sorry Peeps - the pics and article content is for Premium members.
    
    Ive purposely set this up so you can see the intro, so you can decide if its something you may like to read, or not.
    
    ryanmt - I'll make sure the author sees your comments, so has the opportunity to give input
11. BobCm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Apr 2009 Orpington Posts: 1406 My son drives a Poseidon Blue Saxo Mk2 1.6i VTR.

    #11 10th July 2009, 11:46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ryanmt Cant see the guides but i can see the intos "Wrong, theyre fired in pairs."

    Hi Ryan, the spark plugs are fired in pairs but the fuel injectors are operated individually, or you'd end up with petrol being injected into a cylinder on the exhaust stroke.
12. ryanmt Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5

    #12 10th July 2009, 11:49

    no theyre really fired in pairs, check the wiring on them. 1+4, 2+3. Its called batch injection, your thinking sequential. There isnt enough injector drivers in the ecu that although it did support it.
    
    Some of the ecus fire all 4 injectors at once too
    
    Also in your decription of the knock sensor i can see on simos thing.
    
    You say that knock sensor detects pre-ignition and thats wrong. it detects detonation. Pre ignition and detonation are different things!
13. BobCm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Apr 2009 Orpington Posts: 1406 My son drives a Poseidon Blue Saxo Mk2 1.6i VTR.

    #13 10th July 2009, 12:12

    Hi Ryan,
    
    I have no idea what fuel injection ECU you are talking about. The diagram is clear to me. EACH injector is operated separately by the Bosch M7.4.4 ECU fitted to the 100hp VTR. This ECU has 3 plugs (as the title says) and 112 channels (connections). It was introduced to models from 2001 onwards to comply with more stringent emission levels. So you think they'd spray fuel into a cylinder on its exhaust stroke to tighten emissions...?
    
    The title is: "Mk2 Saxo Electronic Control Unit (3-plug ECU)... Overview The Bosch ME7.4.4 and M7.4.4 ignition-injection ECUs..."
14. Wizzy Frequent Poster Joined: Jan 2009 Wokingham, Berkshire Posts: 606 16v VTR

    #14 10th July 2009, 12:14

    Bosch Motronic injection systems used 'banked' fuel injection where all injectors are fired simultaneously. Late models user Motronic MP7 which is sequential, the injectors are operated in the firing order.
    
    The Magneti Marelli systems use semi-sequential (or batch), where fuel is injected into each cylinders inlet tract twice per engine cycle- once during induction and once during power.
15. ryanmt Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5

    #15 10th July 2009, 12:17

    The pre-2001 stuff. 1AP.xx range 1.4furio, vts etc. Thats far more common since saxo production was winding down 2001+ really compared to previous years
    
    All it says to me is "Saxo Fuel Injector" so i cant see that
    
    And yes. yes they do. The fuel doesn't actually go out the exhaust you know!
    
    Also on the green/blue temp senders one goes to the ecu the other goes to the dash gauge/light youve got it as they're both wired to the ecu. On the later cars im not 100% but i know the ecu controls the fan rather than an extra thermostat in the rad.
16. Pricklep Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5

    #16 10th July 2009, 12:49

    Jesus how detailed, top work tbh.
17. BobCm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Apr 2009 Orpington Posts: 1406 My son drives a Poseidon Blue Saxo Mk2 1.6i VTR.

    #17 10th July 2009, 12:57

    Hi Ryan,
    
    Ok, you are talking about a different ECU. I agree that there are more years between 1996 and 2001 than 2001 and 2003. Perhaps it would be more beneficial for you to contribute "your knowledge" of the systems you "know" rather than those that you don't. As Wizzy points out there are many ECUs.
    
    From what I have seen regarding temp sensors there are differences between early and late models, perhaps due to ECU channel availability. I am looking into the cooling system for earlier models and especially the sensors vs gauge and I will highlight anything I find.
    
    Feel free to send me the specific Citroen schematic diagram references and I'll review them.
18. ryanmt Established Member Joined: Oct 2004 Warrington Posts: 1987 AX VTS 57 3.0 TDI A5

    #18 10th July 2009, 13:51

    All the diagrams are in the Haynes regarding sensors. The rest i cant give out cause ide get in trouble with the people that give them to me since they're copyrighted etc.
    
    I cant contribute because im not a paid member.
    
    Heres a guide about knock vs pre-ignition for you to read though
    http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm
19. Simop Administrator Joined: Dec 2002 Warrington Posts: 20561 Blue Saxo VTS Turbo/White Megane F1 R26

    #19 10th July 2009, 16:08

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ryanmt All the diagrams are in the Haynes regarding sensors. The rest i cant give out cause ide get in trouble with the people that give them to me since they're copyrighted etc. I cant contribute because im not a paid member. Heres a guide about knock vs pre-ignition for you to read though http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm

    As a side note, you don't need to be a paid member to contribute - content contributors have extra privileges, to be able to view/access and contribute to areas, which regular members may not be able to.
20. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

    #20 10th July 2009, 16:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Simo As a side note, you don't need to be a paid member to contribute - content contributors have extra privileges, to be able to view/access and contribute to areas, which regular members may not be able to.

    How do you actually become a content contributor?
21. RichM Established Member Joined: Oct 2007 Plymouth Posts: 1871 Saxo VTR MK2 '01 Vauxhall Astra Sport Hatch '60

    #21 10th July 2009, 16:24

    It's in the first post SaXo_vtr123
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Simo All, As some of you will have read, a new articles section has been under construction by myself and the content contributor team for a number of months. This evening, the first technical reference material 'went live'. Special thanks to BobC for his efforts over the last couple of weeks! If anyone else is interested to join the content contributor team and help to author/publish information and articles, please register your interest within the group memberships tab, within your User CP.

22. JamesRm Forum Section Moderator Joined: Aug 2008 Liverpool Posts: 15517 Saxo VTR

    #22 10th July 2009, 16:27

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichM It's in the first post SaXo_vtr123

    So it is, so it is
23. Toad Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2007 Reading Posts: 8980 French tin can

    #23 28th July 2009, 22:31

    Knocking and pre-ignition are often mistaken as the same thing... I've tried to explain many times.