VTS Turbo....

28th July 2010, 02:18

was reading through a few threads an thought what would i need to turbo a vts engine. if its cheap enough then im going to consider doing it.

so what parts would i need?...

28th July 2010, 02:21

try searching...........

28th July 2010, 02:32

28th July 2010, 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phils_VTR

luv it................

28th July 2010, 10:20

what do you consider cheap enough? i've spent thousands if it gives you an indication

28th July 2010, 10:36

ring gmc, cituning or atspeed

28th July 2010, 13:19

if you have the tools and you are clever enough you can do it im prob a good bit under 2k on my buld
colin

28th July 2010, 13:26

what colin said but I am just under 800 on mine so far

28th July 2010, 13:32

read the stickys!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

ring gmc, cituning or atspeed

I think you've recomended gmc in the last 5 posts ive read lol

28th July 2010, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by stupotvtr

read the stickys!!!!

I think you've recomended gmc in the last 5 posts ive read lol

thats cause people keep asking the same questions when they have already been answered so many times, and gmc are pretty much at the top of the game

28th July 2010, 19:04

GMC also know these cars very well and odds are they can help on most Saxo, AX and 106 related projects. Saying that they are know tones of other cars as well.

28th July 2010, 19:20

Yawn.....

28th July 2010, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo_singh

was reading through a few threads an thought what would i need to turbo a vts engine. if its cheap enough then im going to consider doing it.

so what parts would i need?...

If I was to mess about with one again on the cheap I would do it like this

Stand alone ECU (Predator is good bet)
Larger injector ( size would depend on the power I was after )
2/3Bar map sensor
DP manifold
DP down pipe
DIY oil feed with restricted flow
DIY oil drain
DIY modified sump with drain for turbo and baffles
DIY water feed pipes
DIY water drain pipes
106/Saxo diesel rad
106/Saxo header tank
Brand new or recon Garrett turbo ( spec would depend on power I was after )
Twin repair headgaskets ( or low comp pistons depending on power )
Boggbrothers custom front mounted IC ( size would depend on power I was after )
Oil cooler ( just about whatever I could get at a good price )
Clutch ( would depend on power )

Then I would likely get a ATB diff for the MA box unless going for only a small gain or swap to a BE box if going a bit mad.

Unless it was a low mileage car I would also give it a good overhaul first.

Most importantly of all get it well setup.

All in all your talking two thousand and up depending on final spec. You could get it cheaper if going for used parts or will to cut corners but your asking for trouble then unless you really know what your going. A few people where stung with some shit off ebay in the past.

28th July 2010, 19:38

Predator has a 3bar MAP sensor built in... also non ball bearing garrett Turbo chargers don't need restrictors... and <7psi can run on stock compression ratio...

Otherwise, pretty much there.

Andy

28th July 2010, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

<7psi can run on stock compression ratio...

Does any one ever run such low boost

Have seen a few oil bearing T25s blowing smoke at stock pressure so would still cut it down.

28th July 2010, 19:56

yeah! Saxo's are such cool fun on 7psi, I've got 3 people running my ECU with low boost turbo's like this

28th July 2010, 19:56

Search or look in the FAQ

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=167335

28th July 2010, 20:14

Quick question seeing as there is another 'turbo' thread running. What sort of boost pressure is needed from a turbo charger with intercooler to reach 250bhp at wheels. I know there are a few other factors that need to be considered such as intercooler size and what not but I didn't know if there was a direct comparison from bhp/boost.

28th July 2010, 20:25

Would need a turbo rated to 250 bhp at the correct boost required!

28th July 2010, 20:38

It the boost pressure different depending on charger used then for a set power output?

28th July 2010, 20:46

If your wanting to hit the 250 mark you'll definitely need some forgies, head over to dp engineering's site and check out the projects, can give you an idea of whats' needed to get some real power

28th July 2010, 20:51

Yeah I know I'll need pistons and rods. The last couple of bits on the shopping list to sort is really just the turbo and maybe MAP sensor.

29th July 2010, 00:13

250 atw would be looking at just over 1bar of boost i expect.

29th July 2010, 03:17

Cheers mate.

29th July 2010, 08:00

it really is not as simple as "how much pressure". You need to derive the lbs or air you need to move to make the power you want, then lookup on the turbo compressor maps what turbo moves that air within the most efficient island on the map.

29th July 2010, 08:33

im only running .5 bar on my ax and thats quite quick
colin

29th July 2010, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

it really is not as simple as "how much pressure". You need to derive the lbs or air you need to move to make the power you want, then lookup on the turbo compressor maps what turbo moves that air within the most efficient island on the map.

its not that simple no, but it gives a very good indication.

nobody can just 'guess' power figures but you can give someone a reasonable estimate from looking at previous cars that have had the same/similar work.

12psi will see mine at around 250bhp at the fly, the whp is roughly 30bhp down on this, 14.7psi = 1bar, so just over 1 bar (lets say 15-16psi) should *in theory* give around 250 whp.
i know its not this simple with charge temperatures increasing etc but i'm not about to do a full test to prove my point on an internet forum

so i'd say its fair to say just over 1bar should give you pretty close to 250 bhp atw.

29th July 2010, 12:06

I'd just buy a car thats meant to have a turbo in TBH.

29th July 2010, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattWild

I'd just buy a car thats meant to have a turbo in TBH.

where's the fun in that

29th July 2010, 19:31

Not to mention just whacking a big turbo on it or maxing out the boost is not always the best route. It would probably be worth getting the most you can out of NA before hitting the turbo. You can also get the cams from catcams that work alongside with a turbo to give you extra aswell

30th July 2010, 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

its not that simple no, but it gives a very good indication.

nobody can just 'guess' power figures but you can give someone a reasonable estimate from looking at previous cars that have had the same/similar work.

12psi will see mine at around 250bhp at the fly, the whp is roughly 30bhp down on this, 14.7psi = 1bar, so just over 1 bar (lets say 15-16psi) should *in theory* give around 250 whp.
i know its not this simple with charge temperatures increasing etc but i'm not about to do a full test to prove my point on an internet forum

so i'd say its fair to say just over 1bar should give you pretty close to 250 bhp atw.

Yeah I thought that different turbos gave different types of power and different pressures and there are many other factors to consider other then just boost pressure but I just wanted an idea of what to work from just to help me on my way.

Thank you both for your help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

where's the fun in that

No fun at all. Don't even get to learn how the thing works if you buy it like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukgaz

Not to mention just whacking a big turbo on it or maxing out the boost is not always the best route. It would probably be worth getting the most you can out of NA before hitting the turbo. You can also get the cams from catcams that work alongside with a turbo to give you extra aswell

I don't see the point in buying high compression pistons for an N/A setup if in the future I would plan on replacing them for low compression ones. I know that running the charger at full boost isn't the best idea, I was just asking for a rough pressure figure for 250bhp. Considering turbo cams but at the moment I just want a working engine with a turbo and can work from there without needing to make major engine upgrades to the engine such as not fitting low comp pistons at first etc.

30th July 2010, 21:24

Buy ben_vts already turbo'd Saxo180 and save yourself a shit load of hassle lol

Manc

31st July 2010, 01:24

Thought about that but I want a car I can call my own, something I have built myself, although it would be nice to have two cover feature cars, I could collect them lol..

31st July 2010, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by adzvtr

thats cause people keep asking the same questions when they have already been answered so many times, and gmc are pretty much at the top of the game

so fuck-just help the guy.fuck me!

31st July 2010, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by nappert

so fuck-just help the guy.fuck me!

that post doesn't really make any sense.

what i can understand of it is that you're getting in a stress about nothing.

original question: what parts are needed to turbo a saxo?

answer: search, it gets covered every other day. there is massive threads listing every single part you need to do it.

to top it off, people get bored of replying to threads about boosting saxo's as 99/100 people never end up doing it or have a f*cked saxo that they intend to turbo *saxo turbo project* that never gets finished. it gets a little boring.

you will find that the people who are serious will research things properly and never post pointless threads about it.
if you are serious, get serious advice by talking to a pro, eg: gmc, atspeed etc.

i've managed to do it all properly without posting a thread on here every 5 minutes asking what every tom, dick and harry thinks i should do. ANYONE could do the same, which just adds to the little bit of annoyance.

3rd August 2010, 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by nappert

so fuck-just help the guy.fuck me!

ok ok parts needed to turbo a saxo
TURBO MANIFOLD, cheap crap, (ebay, some vtr knock off with correct flange for turbo,) mid range, miltek tubular manifold, cituning. top end, equal length DP engineering, at speed.
DOWNPIPE, sameplaces.
OIL FEED AND RETURN, will need to modify sump for this
WATER FEED AND RETURN. pipes and fittings, decent take off.
TURBO, dp engineering, at speed, cituining ur dads scooby etc.
FUELING. LARGER INJECTORS, OR GMC SIGCON AND 5TH INJECTOR SETUP
DECOMPRESSION, via pistons, or gaskets
ECU, standard, predator, dta pro series, omex
THATS BASICALLY WAT U NEED TO TURBO, probs missed a bit, but its basic.

DEPENDANT ON POWER, which u will say i want as much as i can on the cheap, FORGET IT. not saying it cant be done cause it can, but u wouldnt be asking the question if u could do it.

big power will need
FORGED PISTONS, wozzner, omega etc
RODS, wozzner, pec, etc
DEFINANTLY, ARP ROD BOLTS.

THEN U WANNA LOOK AT,
clutch, brakes, gearbox

HOPE THIS HELPS A LITTLE MORE,
WELL FUCK ME, LAST BIT OF ADVICE, SEARCH IT FIRST

3rd August 2010, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluenotesmiley

Thought about that but I want a car I can call my own, something I have built myself, although it would be nice to have two cover feature cars, I could collect them lol..

I understand your frustration but as with most things a simple answer is not telling you the whole truth .
example --we have a 106 running 1.1 bar of boost with a s/c and its giving 270+6500rpm @wheels
same boost level with different internals will give only 220@7000rpm@wheels ,thats with same charger same boost level ,same forged internals --but different other parts.
my own car which is running similar boost level,but different charger, is much higher than any of those above

you want to build it yorself --fine --but no one can give you truthfull accurate bhp figures without knowing TOTAL spec of all engine , just saying a big valve head or ported and polished ,doesn,t define spec enough , to define what effect the other related components will have on the size or shape of power curve,and of course the spec of your turbo will add another dimension to the package ,depending how it spools up and max flow rate of unit

then main use of the car will decide correct choice of power level and spec of engine + charger unit

3rd August 2010, 15:36

Thanks for your help. I just wanted to source a charger but there is such a massive choice. I know that different engine specs will give vastly different power outputs for the same charger. I was looking at the GT25xx range of chargers.

3rd August 2010, 15:40

the GT25 works very well up to around 250hp - gives a street usable power band and smooth boost build up and power delivery.

- colin.