1.1 to VTS Engine Swap Guide?!

1. Ellisg93 Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Leicester Posts: 184 Saxo 1.1 R reg! 1991 Honda Civic (4G)

   #1 21st January 2011, 10:23

   Anybody know a good guide to swapping a VTS into a 1.1. MK1 btw.
   So far i'm lookin at buying
   Engine
   Loom
   ECU
   Top Radiator Hose
   Rad & Fan Setup
   Manifolds
   Throttle Cable
   Upper Engine Mount
   
   Is there anything else I will need, I already have 4 stud hubs & torsion bar.
   Will I need drive shafts etc?
   Cheers guys
2. Ellisg93 Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Leicester Posts: 184 Saxo 1.1 R reg! 1991 Honda Civic (4G)

   #2 21st January 2011, 12:02

   Come on you useful veterans!
   I need your knowledge!
3. Ellisg93 Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Leicester Posts: 184 Saxo 1.1 R reg! 1991 Honda Civic (4G)

   #3 21st January 2011, 17:55

   Bumppp
4. nickwillyhams Infrequent Poster Joined: Feb 2009 Stoke-on-Trent Posts: 247 2000 16v

   #4 22nd January 2011, 19:09

   gearbox? driveshafts? fuel tank (unless it already got a twin line setup)?
5. wicked-vtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2009 Surrey Posts: 2608 200sx s14a mark 1 vts

   #5 22nd January 2011, 19:15

   Box will mate to the block fine, as far as im aware shafts will fit, however I heard somewhere 1.1 shafts are a few mm too short, dont know if this is reliable info though.
   Might need to run a fuel return, some work ok without.
6. citroen_saxo_vtr Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2006 Norwich Posts: 2823 Vectra sri 2.6 v6

   #6 24th January 2011, 20:41

   Not 100% but i think you will need the mounting bracket off a 1.4 or vtr or vts and weld in the place of yours under the ecu. driveshafts wont fit you will need mk1 vtr driveshafts, different exhaust with bigger flange, as said fuel return vts fuel pump, a few more little things.
7. user_32315 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo

   #7 24th January 2011, 21:46

   the 1.1 box will fit, so you wouldnt need different shafts, if you fitted a vts box and used the 1.1 shafts then the box would leak a bit of oil so yea you would want different shafts, also the vtr/s shafts have a two piece shaft on the drivers side which helps with torque steer the1.1 are just one piece
   
   you can use the 1.1 mount which means you wouldnt have to do any welding, if you wanted to use the vts mount then you would have the angle grind the mount cradle off a vtr/s and weld it on to you 1.1
   
   as mentioned you would need a vts fuel pump and you'd have to plumb in a fuel return, or if you didnt wanna do this can do waht ive done and just block the return off with a length of fuel pipe a big bolt and loads of tiger seal lol OR you can do what im gonna do and fit a JP4 fuel rail which doesnt have fuel return on it, but you can only fit this if originally your fuel pressure regulator is in the tank and not on the fuel rail, im not sure on 1.1's but if you dont have the FPR in the tank then you will need to use the vts fuel rail with the FPR on the rail itself
8. user_46290 Established Member Joined: Aug 2010 Scotland Posts: 1362 Citroen Saxo MK1

   #8 24th January 2011, 22:54

   not really worth it tbh, just buy a V-TEC

   1 user thanked this post: Ellisg93
9. bourney Infrequent Poster Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 121

   #9 24th January 2011, 23:03

   so a vts lump (box, driveshafts, ecu blah blah blah) will dump straight into the 1.1 engine bay? no modding required???
10. user_34645 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2009 Rack City, Isle of Man Posts: 4127 GS300, MK1 VTS, Katy M 1190

    #10 24th January 2011, 23:05

    Need to weld in an Engine mount.
    
    And hope there isn't any problems.
11. user_36078 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2009 Costa Del Posts: 8010

    #11 24th January 2011, 23:20

    Try and find Willsy's old progress thread, im sure a basic outline was shown in that
12. user_32315 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo

    #12 24th January 2011, 23:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ed-bradley Need to weld in an Engine mount. And hope there isn't any problems.

    not if you use the 1.1 mount lol
13. Quinn Newbie Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 20

    #13 25th January 2011, 22:54

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jeffchiz the 1.1 box will fit, so you wouldnt need different shafts, if you fitted a vts box and used the 1.1 shafts then the box would leak a bit of oil so yea you would want different shafts, also the vtr/s shafts have a two piece shaft on the drivers side which helps with torque steer the1.1 are just one piece you can use the 1.1 mount which means you wouldnt have to do any welding, if you wanted to use the vts mount then you would have the angle grind the mount cradle off a vtr/s and weld it on to you 1.1 as mentioned you would need a vts fuel pump and you'd have to plumb in a fuel return, or if you didnt wanna do this can do waht ive done and just block the return off with a length of fuel pipe a big bolt and loads of tiger seal lol OR you can do what im gonna do and fit a JP4 fuel rail which doesnt have fuel return on it, but you can only fit this if originally your fuel pressure regulator is in the tank and not on the fuel rail, im not sure on 1.1's but if you dont have the FPR in the tank then you will need to use the vts fuel rail with the FPR on the rail itself

    Which of the two fuel pipes is the return? The one closest to the end of the rail or the one closer to the middle of the rail? (on the VTS rail)
    
    And will a VTR exhaust fit the VTS mainfold?
    
    Im doing the same swap this weekend. Im rather excited.
14. user_34645 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2009 Rack City, Isle of Man Posts: 4127 GS300, MK1 VTS, Katy M 1190

    #14 25th January 2011, 22:57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jeffchiz not if you use the 1.1 mount lol

    Ahh Right, My bad.
    
    whats this I've read about having to weld in a Mount somewhere?
    
    Or is that for different models or somthing.
    That makes my life easier then, for when I do it. Lol
15. user_32315 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo

    #15 25th January 2011, 22:58

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quinn Which of the two fuel pipes is the return? The one closest to the end of the rail or the one closer to the middle of the rail? (on the VTS rail) And will a VTR exhaust fit the VTS mainfold? Im doing the same swap this weekend. Im rather excited.

    the one nearest to the middle, and the exhaust will fit
16. Quinn Newbie Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 20

    #16 25th January 2011, 23:00

    cheers pal thanks for quick reply
    
    i know who to see if i need any help
17. nickwillyhams Infrequent Poster Joined: Feb 2009 Stoke-on-Trent Posts: 247 2000 16v

    #17 25th January 2011, 23:06

    Yeah the middle one an make sure you clip the fuel lines to the back of inlet to keep em nice an tidy
18. Quinn Newbie Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 20

    #18 25th January 2011, 23:17

    Will i be needing the VTS radiator and fan? Or can i just remove the oil cooler?
    
    What kind of issues can i get from doing that?
19. user_32315 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo

    #19 25th January 2011, 23:25

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ed-bradley Ahh Right, My bad. whats this I've read about having to weld in a Mount somewhere? Or is that for different models or somthing. That makes my life easier then, for when I do it. Lol

    if you want to use the vtr/s mount then you need to cut the 1.1 cradle out and weld in the vtr/s cradle, but if you use the 1.1 mount then you can use the 1.1 cradle, my mate had it in his 1.1 like that, its all down to weather you wanna risk using the 1.1 mount as it is wafer thin lol
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quinn cheers pal thanks for quick reply i know who to see if i need any help

    lol no worries
    
    

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quinn Will i be needing the VTS radiator and fan? Or can i just remove the oil cooler? What kind of issues can i get from doing that?

    gti engines dont use the oil cooler, so i cant see any problem in taking it off, but might as well just get a vts rad/fan set up, mine was included in the sale
20. Quinn Newbie Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 20

    #20 25th January 2011, 23:44

    I'm running a little low on the pennies at the mo lol
    
    Ive had the engine lying around waiting to go in for some time now and I just want to get it in asap
    
    I'm then going to go about buying the other parts as I can
    
    Just another question on the mounts, can I use all the 1.1 mounts? Including the rear one?
21. user_32315 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo

    #21 26th January 2011, 00:39

    dont think theres any differences between the mounts when it comes to the gearbox ones
    
    how ever im no expert might be wrong
22. Quinn Newbie Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 20

    #22 26th January 2011, 12:40

    Will i need the VTS starter and altenator? Will VTR ones work if the 1.1's wont?
23. user_32315 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo

    #23 26th January 2011, 13:34

    the engine should come with them
    
    ebay lists the all saxo alternators/starter motors together so should , but best to email them
24. Quinn Newbie Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 20

    #24 26th January 2011, 19:39

    I got my engine from the breakers some time ago. The alternator had already been taken.
25. Ellisg93 Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Leicester Posts: 184 Saxo 1.1 R reg! 1991 Honda Civic (4G)

    #25 28th January 2011, 17:24

    Thanks for hijacking my thread guys, but lots of good info. So how would I go about actually doing the swap?
26. user_34645 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jun 2009 Rack City, Isle of Man Posts: 4127 GS300, MK1 VTS, Katy M 1190

    #26 28th January 2011, 20:22

    Front end off 1st... Bumpers, lights, slam panel etc.. For easy access.
    Label the Loom and pipes/hoses before removing them.
    get the car on axle stands, Remove front wheels..then driveshafts. (Cutting it short) drain gearbox oil, unless you dont mind getting it everywhere.
    Undo engine and gearbox mounts etc.
    remove labelled wiring,pipework, hoses.
    Engine crane, lift out the engine and Gearbox.
    
    thats pretty basic.. but you get the idea. Or I hope you do.
    Reverse to refit.
27. user_32315 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo

    #27 29th January 2011, 13:31

    well tbh if you dont have a clue on doing the swap are you sure your should be doing it? i did mine without any previous experience but i had mates helping me who had done it before saying that i did pretty much do it all by my self..
28. Ellisg93 Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2010 Leicester Posts: 184 Saxo 1.1 R reg! 1991 Honda Civic (4G)

    #28 31st January 2011, 22:51

    I've got an idea, just making sure. Thanks for the help guys.
29. user_65139 L-plater Joined: Jul 2013 kent Posts: 36 citroen saxo 1.1 desire soon the be 16v

    #29 28th July 2013, 17:01

    Hi everyone sorry to gate crash this thread. IM new to this site and i hope someone can help answer a question that's been on my mind for sometime. I have a saxo 1.1x 3stud and in considering fitting a vts engine to it. Would my gearbox mate to the block of a 1.6 16v? Also any ideas on a brake conversion to fit as i want to keep it 3 stud and looking as rough as it does lol
30. bobertmate Frequent Poster Joined: Jul 2009 Littlehampton, West Sussex Posts: 613 1997 Amazon Green VTS

    #30 29th July 2013, 00:26

    Hello mate, just a tip... This thread is 2 years old and a lot of people get a bit annoyed when old threads get bumped... The 1.1 box will fit the 16v engine, but you'd need to get some VTS driveshafts as the 1.1 driveshafts are slightly short and will leak from the seals a bit.. You should pop over to 106owners and have a look at Mikol's blue 1.1 106 thread as he did cool things with 3 stud brakes/hubs wise. Not sure if he has his blue 106 thread on saxperience however he has got his white xs thread on here. Hope this helps and good luck.